The 2016 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[V]

Why didn't they just start him later in the year like Smoltz says? It seems like a pretty simple idea if you're worried about the innings limit.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by V

Why didn't they just start him later in the year like Smoltz says? It seems like a pretty simple idea if you're worried about the innings limit.

Might just be me, but I really don't think anyone saw this coming in terms of how dominant Sanchez has been. I think they probably figured he'd perform at a pretty good nubmer 3 level and there would be no controversy when they transitioned him like they did last year.

Hindsight is easy, but I don't think the Jays made an error starting him from game 1. Pretty tough to foresee this type of dominance.

[JiriHrdina]

Yeah I agree - I think they figured he wouldn't get to this point nearly as fast as he has - that there'd be a mix of bad starts in there that would have limited his innings pitched.
But the number of quality starts and his performance has caused them to have to deal with this sooner than they probably thought they would.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by cross16

Might just be me, but I really don't think anyone saw this coming in terms of how dominant Sanchez has been. I think they probably figured he'd perform at a pretty good nubmer 3 level and there would be no controversy when they transitioned him like they did last year.

Hindsight is easy, but I don't think the Jays made an error starting him from game 1. Pretty tough to foresee this type of dominance.

Agreed.

He has pitched far deeper into games than the Jays thought, i suspect. Some decent pitchers only pitch close to 150 innings per season. That seems to be what the jays are limiting him to.

[whosurnabby]

The problem with this thread, is basically what Mr. Coffee admitted to in his post on the last page, there's a lot of bandwagon fans that jumped on last year. They don't want to talk baseball, they don't want to talk strategy, they want to waive pom poms for the Blue Jays, and you are either with them or against them. Quite frankly, I don't think most of them know much about baseball. I think that's more than evident by the way they attack me rather than providing a counter argument. Look at the last page. Where is there a single post other than JiriHrdina that actually challenges what I'm saying? It's a just a bunch of drive-by posters, who if you look at the last two years of baseball threads, have contributed a ground total of zero to the actual conversation. You don't have to agree with what I say, but at least back it up with some valid counterpoints. There's only about 4-5 posters in here who actually do that. (Jiggy 12, jayswin, parallex, JiriHrdina, and JayP). I don't have to agree with them and they don't have to agree with me, but at least we both have a legitimate opinion.

Because of the bandwagon factor of the Jays, anything that doesn't put the Jays in a glowing light is seen as negative as a result. Look at yesterday. All I said was that there's zero science that proves that having innings limits helps or hinders young pitchers, as a result I disagree with it, but I know the Jays have to shut Sanchez down because if something ever did happen, and they didn't there would be massive fallout. I then went on to say if they are shutting him down, let him pitch out his innings as a starter and shut him down completely because I can't see veterans being happy about him being moved to the pen and I don't think it's the right thing for his career.

How is that negative? It's an opinion, and a pretty well supported one in my opinion. Can any of you name another team that keeps moving a high end prospect like Sanchez back and fourth between the pen in the middle of the season like the Jays have done for each of the past 3 years? I can't. I can think of examples where players were demoted or shut down completely, but not what's going on here.

Look at the heat I took for Saunders by suggesting that his season to date was simply a hot streak, that he's not an all-star, and the by the end of the year would simply be a serviceable player and I thought Carrera would serve more of a purpose on the team if Saunders was eventually to be moved to the bench. That's not negative, that's an opinion based on my years of following Saunders on the Mariners.

Am I negative, yup. Do I have reason to be, absolutely in my opinion. I've followed this team for 34 years and seen the make the playoffs a whopping 3 times. The Blue Jays don't have teams this good every couple of years. It's a rare occasion, and even rarer that it coincides with Yankee and Red Sox rebuilds. Just playing good baseball is not enough for me to be content as a result. When they are in a position to win, they need to do everything in their power to get them over the hump.

I'm way younger than you but I can totally tell you that the Jays, in my entire LIFETIME of tuning into this team (bleeding blue&white), have made the playoffs more than 3 times. 1985, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, & 2015. You seem like a smart baseball fan, now be honest with yourself...how can you expect anyone to be happy with Blue Jays baseball when there was a good span of years (ie: 2000-2012) where the damn division was a two team SPRINT between the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees? I'm hardcore as they come, but man, during that span, I will admit to you that the only time I'd watch Jays baseball was during the first 2 months of the season (to gauge if they actually have the chance against those two powerhouses in the AL East) and during Roy Halladay starts. It's not exactly "much watch baseball" when you know it's either going to be Boston or New York that's going to come out on top of the AL EAST.

We're not hating on your opinions TAO, it's the delivery and the constant pessimistic phrases (ie: R.A Dickey, Jose Bautista's Ego, Rogers is evil empire and cheap, AA's horrible GM moves, this "x guy" is just having a good streak trust me guys he is a scrub) that bothers us.

[V]

Speak for yourself. I think TAO is awesome.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by whosurnabby

I'm way younger than you but I can totally tell you that the Jays, in my entire LIFETIME of tuning into this team (bleeding blue&white), have made the playoffs more than 3 times. 1985, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, & 2015. You seem like a smart baseball fan, now be honest with yourself...how can you expect anyone to be happy with Blue Jays baseball when there was a good span of years (ie: 2000-2012) where the damn division was a two team SPRINT between the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees? I'm hardcore as they come, but man, during that span, I will admit to you that the only time I'd watch Jays baseball was during the first 2 months of the season (to gauge if they actually have the chance against those two powerhouses in the AL East) and during Roy Halladay starts. It's not exactly "much watch baseball" when you know it's either going to be Boston or New York that's going to come out on top of the AL EAST.

We're not hating on your opinions TAO, it's the delivery and the constant pessimistic phrases (ie: R.A Dickey, Jose Bautista's Ego, Rogers is evil empire and cheap, AA's horrible GM moves, this "x guy" is just having a good streak trust me guys he is a scrub) that bothers us.

I always tend to forget the pre 92 years. Mostly because I was too young to remember. Even '92 was a bit fuzzy, but memories start to get a lot clearer in '93.

[bluejays]

Here's a crazy idea - Liriano and Dickey splitting time in the bullpen. It's going to be tough losing Sanchez.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by fleury

Here's a crazy idea - Liriano and Dickey splitting time in the bullpen. It's going to be tough losing Sanchez.

Ah it is crazy, mainly for the fact it completely ignores the issue that they have Sanchez on a innings limit...

[JiriHrdina]

And Dickey is the absolutely worst type of guy to put into the pen. He has his struggles as a starter - but he would be a nightmare as a reliever.
I mean heck - can you imagine bringing him into a game in a "high leverage situations" (seems to be the catchphrase right now) with guys on base in a close game?
No way.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I always tend to forget the pre 92 years. Mostly because I was too young to remember. Even '92 was a bit fuzzy, but memories start to get a lot clearer in '93.

I've been a fan since about 85 - where the first wave of new fans were likely created. Became a bigger fan in the late 80s - leading into the two titles.
Baseball changed for a lot of fans with the lockout - there was a clear moment in time there where the game became a business.
I didn't mind the mid 90s - the team still had potential and a lot of good pieces, and you still had hope. As the year dragged on I became dis-illusioned with the sport overall and the gap between the high spending teams and everyone else. I think this remains the biggest problem today and something MLB really doesn't care about. The league is driven by the big markets - so they want those markets competing.
I've always though still enjoyed watching games. I don't follow the overall sport as closely as I used to - nor do I have the depth of knowledge of prospects that some do here. However, my blood runs blue for sure when it comes to my love of the Jays. Probably my second favorite team in all of sports behind the Flames.
It is a wonderful game, and part of what I wish for you is that you could seemingly take more joy in it. Ain't no sport like it (which I'm sure you agree with).

[Dan02]

I was only half paying attention and I thought that shot by JD was a replay of his first.

Back 2 back!

[habernac]

Got my first Jays hat the first year of their existence when Dad was in TO for a business trip. Watched them and the Expos with grandpa, loved Whitt and Gary Carter.

[JiriHrdina]

The guy that became my first favorite player was Mookie Wilson. Loved his batting stance and tried to replicate it. I was also a huge fan of Rance Mulliniks

[bluejays]

Goddamn, Travis' defence is atrocious. Can't think of a worse fielder in recent history. He seems to miss every routine flip given to him. Really amateur mistakes from the guy - every damn game.

[chockfullofgoodness]

When is Goins back in the lineup?

[KelVarnsen]

Originally Posted by chockfullofgoodness

When is Goins back in the lineup?

At least a week, got optioned down to the minors the other day. Has to be in AAA for 10 days unless someone is put on the DL.

[chockfullofgoodness]

Wow, has Rasmus struggled at the plate this year.

[Dan02]

4 runs allowed in 32 innings so far this series? I find that to be acceptable.

[vegasbound]

Jays win!