Your belief about September, 11th, 2001

[Dion]

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by puckluck

He works for the city.

um, what?

[Beerfest]

Well considering a couple "cheapshots" ive read in the other September 11th thread, I thought id give this thread a bump.

1. Its quite annoying to see when someone questions the "official story" they are labeled as wearing tin foil hats or similar things. Especially with the amount of documented information that is available about governments lying to their citizens.

2. Just because someone believes in a conspiracy, doesnt mean they believe every conspiracy or everything to do with a conspiracy. I dont remember all my posts from this thread, but some of my views may have changed.

3. Take a look at this.

"7 Insane Conspiracies That Actually Happened"
http://www.cracked.com/article_15974...-happened.html

[CaptainCrunch]

nm

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Well considering a couple "cheapshots" ive read in the other September 11th thread, I thought id give this thread a bump.

1. Its quite annoying to see when someone questions the "official story" they are labeled as wearing tin foil hats or similar things. Especially with the amount of documented information that is available about governments lying to their citizens.

What is also documented is that planes where hijacked and flown into various buildings in the USA Sept 11, 2001 and two of them due to the damage they recieved collapsed. Just because goverments lie to their citzens doesn't mean 911 was a conspiracy. Just because conspiracy do happen does not mean 911 was a conspiracy.

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

What is also documented is that planes where hijacked and flown into various buildings in the USA Sept 11, 2001 and two of them due to the damage they recieved collapsed. Just because goverments lie to their citzens doesn't mean 911 was a conspiracy. Just because conspiracy do happen does not mean 911 was a conspiracy.

So you do agree that governments lie to their citizens? So why is it out of the question for them to lie about september 11th?

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

So you do agree that governments lie to their citizens? So why is it out of the question for them to lie about september 11th?

It's not out of the question AT FIRST. However, any reasonably intelligent examination of available evidence would lead a person to the conclusion that, in this case, they are not lying.

To put it in scientific language: there is insufficient evidence to support the hypothesis that 9/11 was an inside job, therefore the hypothesis fails.

[valo403]

Guys c'mon, he printed off a bunch of information when he was in grade 5, Beerfest knows this stuff

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

So you do agree that governments lie to their citizens? So why is it out of the question for them to lie about september 11th?

Because the logistics of a so called false flag operation of that magnitude make it impossible to pull off without someone leaking.

Because nearly every theory put forth by the so called truthers out there has been pretty successfully debunked using the scientific method

Everyone says that George Bush is an idiot, yet he somehow managed to put together a plot using remote controlled airplanes or missiles disguised as airplanes, had someone rig the World Trade Centers with no one witnessing, because he somehow liquidated all of the innocent airline passengers without someone feeling guilty and coming forward.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

So you do agree that governments lie to their citizens? So why is it out of the question for them to lie about september 11th?

Do you agree that terrorist attacks happen? So why is it out of the question to believe that a terrorist attack happened on September 11th, when all of the scientific evidence, witnesses, logic and common sense leads one to think that a terrorist attack happened on September 11th.

How many people would it take to put together a false flag operation the size of 9/11? Between demolition crews, planning the event, people to guide the missiles and the associated coverup... you would think that at least one person would feel guilty or admit something to someone. Think about how crap 99% of the world's population is at keeping a secret now extrapolate that over everyone who would need to be involved.

The logistics of it just don't add up at all.

[HPLovecraft]

Occam's razor reigns here.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

1. Its quite annoying to see when someone questions the "official story" they are labeled as wearing tin foil hats or similar things. Especially with the amount of documented information that is available about governments lying to their citizens.

"Governments sometimes lie therefore what the government says about (subject x) is a lie or has a chance of being a lie"

This is a logical fallacy, therefore your argument is invalid.

Originally Posted by Beerfest

2. Just because someone believes in a conspiracy, doesnt mean they believe every conspiracy or everything to do with a conspiracy. I dont remember all my posts from this thread, but some of my views may have changed.

So? If you want to go into detail go into detail, but without any further information why would there be any reason to think a person who parrots all the typical truther lines isn't a truther?

Originally Posted by Beerfest

3. Take a look at this.

"7 Insane Conspiracies That Actually Happened"
http://www.cracked.com/article_15974...-happened.html

"Conspiracies happen therefore this conspiracy happened or has a chance of having happened" is a logical fallacy therefore your argument is invalid.

[FlamesAddiction]

I'm not a truther, but the thought has crossed my mind that it is possible that they knew that a terrorist attack was coming and let it happen so that they could enjoy a political carte blanche. The ensuing wars made some Bush supporters a lot of money and gave the Bush government a lot of power. I mean, he was then able to use it as justification to occupy Iraq - a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

I am like 99% sure that this was not the case, but that 1% still creeps into my mind sometimes. I don't for a second believe that any of it involved controlled demolitions or remote control planes.

I guess it doesn't help either though that going as far back as the 1960s, the idea was put forth by someone in the U.S. government that a terrorist attack involving highjacked planes crashing into skyscrapers could give the U.S. a mandate to occupy Cuba.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I'm not a truther, but the thought has crossed my mind that it is possible that they knew that a terrorist attack was coming and let it happen so that they could enjoy a political carte blanche. The ensuing wars made some Bush supporters a lot of money and gave the Bush government a lot of power. I mean, he was then able to use it as justification to occupy Iraq - a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

I am like 99% sure that this was not the case, but that 1% still creeps into my mind sometimes. I don't for a second believe that any of it involved controlled demolitions or remote control planes.

I guess it doesn't help either though that going as far back as the 1960s, the idea was put forth by someone in the U.S. government that a terrorist attack involving highjacked planes crashing into skyscrapers could give the U.S. a mandate to occupy Cuba.

You would almost have to blame Clinton as much as you blamed bush. 9/11 was as much an illustration of the failings of the CIA then anything else. They had a lot of the pieces of the puzzle ie Al Queda members taking flying lessons, getting false papers to get into the states, money transfers.

But the message never got through, it was stopped by the whole "Confirm it before we kick it upstairs argument", followed by the "This is too stupid to be true, stop surfingthe internet johnson"

9/11 was allowed to happen through the failures of the American intelligence community.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Well considering a couple "cheapshots" ive read in the other September 11th thread, I thought id give this thread a bump.

1. Its quite annoying to see when someone questions the "official story" they are labeled as wearing tin foil hats or similar things. Especially with the amount of documented information that is available about governments lying to their citizens.

2. Just because someone believes in a conspiracy, doesnt mean they believe every conspiracy or everything to do with a conspiracy. I dont remember all my posts from this thread, but some of my views may have changed.

3. Take a look at this.

"7 Insane Conspiracies That Actually Happened"
http://www.cracked.com/article_15974...-happened.html

Originally Posted by Beerfest

So you do agree that governments lie to their citizens? So why is it out of the question for them to lie about september 11th?

See if you can tell me why one of these statements is ridiculous in light of the other.

[troutman]

http://www.debunking911.com/links.htm



http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11/

This article has analyzed the arguments of the 9/11 Truth Movement and found them lacking. Yet, the 400 people who attended the conference and the thousands of others who support their efforts find these theories convincing, and the reason does not necessarily seem to be grounded in common political ideology. Based on my informal survey of the crowd at the Hyatt conference, I noted that attendees seemed to come from each extreme of the political spectrum. There were representatives of the far right who decry any form of government authority, but there were also members of the far left waging a tireless campaign against the perceived evils of capitalism and imperialism. We need to return to a question posed near the beginning of this discussion: Why do so many intelligent and promising people find these theories so compelling?

There are several possible answers to this question, none of them necessarily exclusive of the others. One of the first and most obvious is distrust of the American government in general, and the Bush administration in particular.

Another reason for the appeal of 9/11 conspiracies is that they are easy to understand.

The great advantage of the 9/11 Truth Movement’s theories is that they don’t require you to know anything about the Middle East, or for that matter, to know anything significant about world history or politics. This points to another benefit of conspiracy theories — they are oddly comforting. Chaotic, threatening events are difficult to comprehend, and the steps we might take to protect ourselves are unclear. With conspiracy theory that focuses on a single human cause, the terrible randomness of life assumes an understandable order.

Solace is something all of us needed after the horrible events of 9/11, and each of us is entitled to a certain degree of freedom in its pursuit. However, there is no moral right to seek solace at the expense of truth, especially if the truth is precisely what we most need to avoid the mistakes of the past. Truth matters for its own sake, but it also matters because it is our only defense against the evils of those who cynically exploit truth claims to serve their own agendas.

[jar_e]

This thread is like spitting in the face of all the memorial events and pissing on the grave of people who died on September 11. Especially to bump this around the anniversary date. What a disgrace.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://www.debunking911.com/links.htm



http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/06-09-11/

This article has analyzed the arguments of the 9/11 Truth Movement and found them lacking. Yet, the 400 people who attended the conference and the thousands of others who support their efforts find these theories convincing, and the reason does not necessarily seem to be grounded in common political ideology. Based on my informal survey of the crowd at the Hyatt conference, I noted that attendees seemed to come from each extreme of the political spectrum. There were representatives of the far right who decry any form of government authority, but there were also members of the far left waging a tireless campaign against the perceived evils of capitalism and imperialism. We need to return to a question posed near the beginning of this discussion: Why do so many intelligent and promising people find these theories so compelling?

Because we live in a fantastic fictional era where T.V. and books are all conspiracy based, wide spread and much cooler then reality.

What sounds cooler, Terrorists hijack planes with box cutters, learn enough about piloting to steer planes into the World Trade Center buildings where due to a fantastic combination of factors collapse killing 3000 people.

Or the American Government in conjunction with the Free Masons, Jewish power groups and the Skulls decide that they want to bring the middle east to heel, and seize Oil Supplies so that they can all become richer, use top secret government military demolition teams using a top secret super explosive compound to mine buildings, meanwhile Seal Teams 5, 6, 7 and 8 seize three jet liners, where the passengers are then off loaded at area 51 and cruise missiles disguised as jet liners are launched at the world trade center and the Pentagon. In order to raise American anger a phony crash site is set up and phony cell phone calls are recorded to show that American's fought back and heroically crashed a plane that was suppossed to hit the White house.

The American government had practiced this concept years ago by striking their own guided missile destroyer the U.S.S. Cole.

Meanwhile Operation Oscar which was activated years ago using actor William Fleichmanny a failed Detroit stage actor who has assumed the role of Osama Bin Laden head of a terrorist group set up years ago by the Sword group a shadowy government off shoot of the CIA begins to record video tapes showing him taking credit for the World Trade Center bombings.

The American government upon completion of 9/11 then follows the rule of killing the killers liquidates the airline passengers at area 51. Then quietly murders the rest of the conspirators with the last ones being Seal Team 6 who tragically die in a Helicopter accident in Afghanistan.

Meanwhile the senior members of the cabal The Skulls free masons and Jews all add to their wealth by short selling on the world stock markets and the top secret hidden commodities echanges only available to the top 10 richest man in the world.

Woah

[mikey_the_redneck]

The real conspiracy theory is the government version that OBL was 100% responsible for 9-11.

I don't understand why people don't consider the fact that 6 out of 10 of the 9-11 commission members made complaints and called the investigation a fraud. So if the commission doesn't support the investigation, and the 9-11 families and first responders don't support it what do you have left? You have the big media networks and a sad debunking attempt by Popular Mechanics to prop up the lies.

People like to use the "it would have been leaked by whistle-blowers" excuse. Well, The Manhattan Project is a fine example of a big secretive project with thousands of people involved that was successfully kept secret for many years. Besides .......there are also many 9-11 whistleblowers that have been pretty well silenced or ignored, Sibel Edmonds and Michael Springman for example.

The evidence of the use of explosives (thermitic materials) has been replicated and peer reviewed now by several institutions/scientists in the U.S. and at Universities overseas. ae911truth.org is releasing a documentary called "Experts Speak Out" which I can't wait to see....

Under the rubble piles of all 3 buildings you have countless witness testimony of molten steel plus all the confirmed thermal image readings by NASA, EarthData, and Bechtel. This has never been addressed in any investigation. How you get from jet fuel/office fire to a temp. that liquifies steel requires some help to get there.

NIST was busted on camera at a hearing that they had no knowledge of molten steel and didn't take it into consideration. They did have to admit that WTC-7 reached free-fall speed however. WTC-7 did something no high-rise steel building had done before, collapsing in a symmetrical fashion from fire taking the path of most resistance straight down. This requires simultaneous failure of all steel structural members at the same time. Of course witnesses (Barry Jennings) reported that explosions went off in the basement/lobby earlier in the day before the twin towers "collapsed". The collapse by fire hypothesis does not stand up to science.

It is frustrating that people would rather attack me personally than check out some information. It seems like many watched Loose Change and stopped there, or rejected the idea outright without looking at the evidence. Oh well, I care not because this whole thing fails the smell test, and I'm sticking with my guns.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Hey CaptainCrunch, ..........check out this one.