2010 Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 26 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

jeremywilhelm · 04-25-2010, 07:02 PM

Frasor, seriously. GO AWAY!

JayP · 04-25-2010, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berger

4th 5th best reliever? Im pretty sure he had only given up 1 run in 8 innings in the regular season plus 9 shut-out innings in spring training...... he is also 3-0 from keeping games close enough in late innings that the jays came back to win. Yes he was awful tonight but every reliever has games like this. Hopefully they can rebound tomorrow to take 2 of 3 in tampa which any team in the mlb would be happy with.

Yes, Janssen is their 4th or 5th best reliever. I don't use 17 inning sample sizes (including 9 spring training innings) much to judge stats. It's hard to argue that Gregg, Frasor, and Downs are easily better pitchers. Camp and Arcardo are right in the ballpark too. Janssen is very unproven since his surgery.

Either way, Janssen is completely the wrong type of pitcher to bring in in that situation. The guy has never had anything resembling an out pitch (as displayed in his career K/9 numbers) and losing 2 years due to surgery didn't help. How do you expect that sort of pitcher to get out of a jam? Double plays are nice, but they're unreliable. The strikeout is the pitchers best weapon in that situation.

flambers · 04-26-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

Yes, Janssen is their 4th or 5th best reliever. I don't use 17 inning sample sizes (including 9 spring training innings) much to judge stats. It's hard to argue that Gregg, Frasor, and Downs are easily better pitchers. Camp and Arcardo are right in the ballpark too. Janssen is very unproven since his surgery.

Either way, Janssen is completely the wrong type of pitcher to bring in in that situation. The guy has never had anything resembling an out pitch (as displayed in his career K/9 numbers) and losing 2 years due to surgery didn't help. How do you expect that sort of pitcher to get out of a jam? Double plays are nice, but they're unreliable. The strikeout is the pitchers best weapon in that situation.

On the other hand, Janssen has appeared in 8 games this season (yes its early), he has given up 5 runs so far this season and 4 of them happened in one game against the Rays.

Janssen has pitched really well so far this season, every Relief Pitcher is going to have a few tough outings.

I would think, top 2 pitchers from the Bullpen this season for the Jays are Gregg and Camp. After that the next one would be Janssen with Downs being slightly behind.

Accardo has pitched 2 fewer innings but has given up same amount of runs.

Valdez has only had 2 outings and clearly has struggled.

Frasor looks like he is hurt, his velocity is down and has not been sharp.

Downs is similiar to Janssen has pitched well, but has struggled in his last few outings.

Sylvanfan · 04-26-2010, 02:26 PM

Regarding Saturdays game Gregg had thrown over an inning on Friday, but Thursday had been an off day. With Frasor struggling the way he has it looks like they tried to go to Janssen who had been pretty good until that outing. I guess it depends on if they were planning to give Gregg the day off or if they would have used him.

Either way I agree with the idea that pretty much every MLB manager buys into the Save and often end up using their closer to get the 7-8-9 hitters out in the 9th and leave their best pitcher in the pen when the 3-4-5 guys are up with the go ahead run standing on first in the 8th. If they were planning to use Gregg in that game, that was the time to bring him in.

octothorp · 04-26-2010, 05:46 PM

I just do not understand what Overbay and his .149 average are doing batting fifth in the order. If you want to give him time in the lineup to figure out his swing, fine, but don't have him sandwiched between two guys who are top 10 in the league in extra base hits.

CaramonLS · 04-26-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by octothorp

I just do not understand what Overbay and his .149 average are doing batting fifth in the order. If you want to give him time in the lineup to figure out his swing, fine, but don't have him sandwiched between two guys who are top 10 in the league in extra base hits.

Because that's Cito for you. He thinks that Overbay will get out of his funk faster than if he is in the 8 or 9 slot.

It's Cito psychology.

Caged Great · 04-26-2010, 06:30 PM

Overbay is just this year's version of Mencherson and Millar.

jeremywilhelm · 04-26-2010, 06:47 PM

Jesus, is Accardo ######ed. Bases loaded and he throws a pitch 15 feet off the plate to let Scutaro score on a wild pitch.

Machiavelli · 04-26-2010, 09:12 PM

Ugly game.

And what on earth has happened to Snider?

Flickered Flame · 04-26-2010, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Ugly game.

And what on earth has happened to Snider?

Overrated?

Caged Great · 04-26-2010, 10:52 PM

Jays have Recalled Roenicke and Lewis (LHP), optioned Accardo to AAA and DFA Merkin Valdez

Snider should be good eventually. Remember Lind was absolute garbage for a long time before he started to become good. I wouldn't worry too much about it for now. If he's still this bad at the end of next year, then maybe he might not be so good.

Trojan97 · 04-27-2010, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

Overrated?

How many 22 year olds are playing in the bigs right now?

He has destroyed ever level of ball up to the majors. He has more then proven he belongs in the show. Give me a break. He's going to be a superstar in a few years.

flambers · 04-27-2010, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flickered Flame

Overrated?

Not a chance, I remember Delgado struggled for awhile as well. Snider needs to gain experience. Same thing with Lind he struggled at first as well.

moon · 04-27-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trojan97

How many 22 year olds are playing in the bigs right now?

About 15-20 22 years olds, another 5 guys under 22 and a ton of guys who are 23.

Quote:

He has destroyed ever level of ball up to the majors. He has more then proven he belongs in the show. Give me a break. He's going to be a superstar in a few years.

Which league, other than maybe rookie ball, has he destroyed?

And how has he proven that he belongs in the majors by struggling to hit .200?

I am not saying he won't be good in the future but so far the one thing he has shown is that he does not belong in the majors.

flambers · 04-27-2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

About 15-20 22 years olds, another 5 guys under 22 and a ton of guys who are 23.

Which league, other than maybe rookie ball, has he destroyed?

And how has he proven that he belongs in the majors by struggling to hit .200?

I am not saying he won't be good in the future but so far the one thing he has shown is that he does not belong in the majors.

Okay, I will bit who are the 15 to 20 players in MLB that are 22 years old?

As for Snider take a few minutes and look up his minor league stats its obvious what he has done in AAA or AA or high Single A ball.

Sure he has struggled this year, however why not keep him on the team and work with him.

The Jays are not going to contend this year anyhow, its a perfect year to see how the kid will play 2 or 3 or 4 months into the season.

flambers · 04-27-2010, 09:41 AM

However here is Sniders stats

http://www.tsn.ca/mlb/teams/players/...=mlb-blue_jays

2008 Eastern League (AA) - All-Star Team
2007 Midwest League (A) - All-Star Team

In 2009 Snider played 48 games at AAA

14 HRs // 40 RBIs / 59 Hits / .337 AVG / OPS 1.094

Caged Great · 04-27-2010, 09:48 AM

those stats extrapolated over a full season

47 HR, 135 RBI, 199 hits

moon · 04-27-2010, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Okay, I will bit who are the 15 to 20 players in MLB that are 22 years old?

Gerardo Parra, Clayton Kershaw, Brett Anderson, Mat Latos, Mike Leake, Alex Burnett.

A lot of the guys I thought were 22 seem to be 23, must have had a birthday since the offseason when they were talked about.

So more like 10 guys that are 22. 23 certainly seems to be the age that guys make the jump as there are a ton of them in the league.

Under 22: Jenrry Mejia, Elvis Andrus, Jason Heyward, Neftali Feliz, Ricky Porcello,

Quote:

As for Snider take a few minutes and look up his minor league stats its obvious what he has done in AAA or AA or high Single A ball.

He has done well but not destroyed them.

Quote:

Sure he has struggled this year, however why not keep him on the team and work with him.

The Jays are not going to contend this year anyhow, its a perfect year to see how the kid will play 2 or 3 or 4 months into the season.

No reason not to keep him if you think that is the best place for him but that doesn't mean that he has shown that he deserves to be in the MLB so far.

flambers · 04-27-2010, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Gerardo Parra, Clayton Kershaw, Brett Anderson, Mat Latos, Mike Leake, Alex Burnett.

A lot of the guys I thought were 22 seem to be 23, must have had a birthday since the offseason when they were talked about.

So more like 10 guys that are 22. 23 certainly seems to be the age that guys make the jump as there are a ton of them in the league.

Under 22: Jenrry Mejia, Elvis Andrus, Jason Heyward, Neftali Feliz, Ricky Porcello,

.

Out of the names above the following are not pitchers...Parra, Andrus, Heyward.

Out of that list only one of them would be producing and that is Heyward who is the #2 prospect in MLB.

Andrus is a defensive specialist Shortstop.

Sylvanfan · 04-27-2010, 12:46 PM

3 straight games where the bullpen looked terrible. Only Gregg really seems to be throwing well right now. Not a good sign for a team who no longer have Roy Halladay to give them that extra off day 10 times a season. For the most part the starters are giving them quality starts more often than not.