Who did you vote for? - Official Election Results Thread

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Rural Alberta makes up 50% of the legislature. It will lose power in the next redistribution, but it is highly disingenuous to call it "irrelevant" now, or in the next election.

Their percent of seats in the next legislation will be closer to 30-35 percent.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Yep, I have heard the results of the NEP was a plunge versus a slow regression. To say the Trudeau liberals had only 5% to do with Alberta's regression shows a huge amount of ignorance.

Ignorant, please show me your studies that show how the NEP affected the Alberta economy as dramatically as you think. If you're gonna call someone ignorant, make sure you can back it up.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

The GST the Tories introduced.

To replace the Manufacturers Sales Tax, which at the time was hurting Ontario and Quebec internationally for exports. The GST spread the tax base out and was also to go towards debt reduction, which it has since implemented (but taken credit by the Liberals).

Times were different then. Not sure if you were around for the staggering inflation rates happening globally but I lived through it. Global inflation came down luckily and has been pretty stable since.

I was never a fan of Mulroney, but the GST (and free trade) did in fact turn out OK. And I am equally OK with the GST reduction now to a more reasonable level.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Ignorant, please show me your studies that show how the NEP affected the Alberta economy as dramatically as you think. If you're gonna call someone ignorant, make sure you can back it up.

Well, if the Canadian price is significantly lower than the world rates (75% of the world price), with high operational costs, and additional taxes, what do you think is going to happen. That's why Alberta lost between $50 and $100 billion dollars between 1980-1985 or between 15 and 25% of its total GDP in those years. Alberta was subsidizing Canadian oil costs.

The global downturn was felt between 1985 and 1986, where the price of oil in today's dollars fell from about $50 to about $25. Alberta's main losses were between 1981 and 1985. The global price of oil did hit its peak and start to fall in 1982.

[nieuwy-89]

What a great night for Alberta and for Ed Stelmach. Yes Albertans wanted change, and Ed will deliver change. However it will be in the measured and cautious way that the PC government can provide.

After a campaign that had a bit of a nasty tone - mostly due to pot shots at the premier's personality - I'm proud to be an Albertan tonight.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

What a great night for Alberta and for Ed Stelmach. Yes Albertans wanted change, and Ed will deliver change. However it will be in the measured and cautious way that the PC government can provide.

After a campaign that had a bit of a nasty tone - mostly due to pot shots at the premier's personality - I'm proud to be an Albertan tonight.

He can lead the government if he promises not to make any annoying fakest coffee shop and fakest people in the world commercials ever again.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Their percent of seats in the next legislation will be closer to 30-35 percent.

Even so, its not like Edmonton and Calgary voted in droves against the conservatives tonight. Provincewide it was 55% Conservative, and 40% in a first past the post multi-party system is still good enough for a majority. Tonight proved that under the current paradigmn that under no circumstances no matter how you carve up the map will a party to the left of the Conservatives win office in Alberta.

So Liberals take note and learn from this and avoid from marching out a platform rich on extensive social programs, rent controls and GHG emission hard caps. On these issues they are pandering to traditionally NDP/Green support as opposed to chipping away at traditional tory voters.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

Well, if the Canadian price is significantly lower than the world rates (75% of the world price), with high operational costs, and additional taxes, what do you think is going to happen. That's why Alberta lost between $50 and $100 billion dollars between 1980-1985 or between 15 and 25% of its total GDP in those years. Alberta was subsidizing Canadian oil costs.

The global downturn was felt between 1985 and 1986, where the price of oil in today's dollars fell from about $50 to about $25. Alberta's main losses were between 1981 and 1985. The global price of oil did hit its peak and start to fall in 1982.

Wrong, it was the glut of oil in the world and the staggering interest rates that initially caused problems. The price of oil dropping in 1985-1986 further exarcebated the problems. Any self respecting economist will tell you that.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Even so, its not like Edmonton and Calgary voted in droves against the conservatives tonight. Provincewide it was 55% Conservative, and 40% in a first past the post multi-party system is still good enough for a majority. Tonight proved that under the current paradigmn that under no circumstances no matter how you carve up the map will a party to the left of the Conservatives win office in Alberta.

So Liberals take note and learn from this and avoid from marching out a platform rich on extensive social programs, rent controls and GHG emission hard caps. On these issues they are pandering to traditionally NDP/Green support as opposed to chipping away at traditional tory voters.

I still don't see where the PC's and Liberals differentiate on spending. The Conservatives are spending like an asteroid is gonna hit this planet in ten years. There is no great difference between the two parties. The 1993 Tories=good. These Tories are no different than the Liberals when it comes to buying votes.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Wrong, it was the glut of oil in the world and the staggering interest rates that initially caused problems. The price of oil dropping in 1985-1986 further exarcebated the problems. Any self respecting economist will tell you that.

What would a self-respecting economist say about wage and price controls inplemented in the mid-1970s by Trudeau. What would they say about creating anti-foreign ownership laws in the petroleum sector and how it would impact the oil producing region?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Hey, even today, the Conservatives have become the Liberals federally and provincially when it comes to taxing and spending but people actually think they are different parties with with different platforms and policies. I don't see no difference between either of the two.

The Conservative party now is like what the Liberal party was 30-40 years ago.

Really, they are not as different as people like to think. In fact, people change parties all the time. I'm not going to look it up, but wasn't Ralph Klein even in the Liberal party at one time?

At the risk of offending some people, I personally think that part of the Conservative party's stronghold in Alberta is just engrained into the culture of the province. It has less to do with politcal issues, and more to do with maintaining an institution.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

I still don't see where the PC's and Liberals differentiate on spending. The Conservatives are spending like an asteroid is gonna hit this planet in ten years. There is no great difference between the two parties. The 1993 Tories=good. These Tories are no different than the Liberals when it comes to buying votes.

Exactly the problem with the Liberals, Albertans would rather vote for the free-spending party that pays lip service to free-markets as opposed to one that ideologically strains to even come that far centre and consists of a collection of teachers and health care workers union supporters in their ranks.

Their Humpty Dumpty position on Oil royalties before the Royalty Review was laughable.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Ignorant, please show me your studies that show how the NEP affected the Alberta economy as dramatically as you think. If you're gonna call someone ignorant, make sure you can back it up.

Start with this one. Chart 9 shows Western Canadian housing prices since 1980 while Chart 10 shows Eastern Canadian housing prices since 1980.

Edmonton and Calgary took a MASSIVE hit from 1980-1985, losing ~40% of their value over that time, which was by far the most of any major centers in Canada. Eastern Canada came through pretty much unscathed.

If that were today, it would be like you having a $400K mortgage on a house worth $240K.... with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Dig deeper and wake up. The NEP was the catalyst in killing the Alberta economy in those years.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Start with this one. Chart 9 shows Western Canadian housing prices since 1980 while Chart 10 shows Eastern Canadian housing prices since 1980.

Edmonton and Calgary took a MASSIVE hit from 1980-1985, losing ~40% of their value over that time, which was by far the most of any major centers in Canada. Eastern Canada came through pretty much unscathed.

If that were today, it would be like you having a $400K mortgage on a house worth $240K.... with no light at the end of the tunnel.

Dig deeper and wake up. The NEP was the catalyst in killing the Alberta economy in those years.

Hmm..check the interest rates in Canada at the during that time frame. Interest rates caused by Reaganomics. People's houses dropped in value because people couldn't afford the new rates being charged for their mortgages. People walked out of their houses causing the housing industry to slump which caused lower housing prices. Its a bit like the ARM's in the US today. If there is a glut of real estate on the market, the price of real estate goes down.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Hmm..check the interest rates in Canada at the during that time frame. Interest rates caused by Reaganomics. People's houses dropped in value because people couldn't afford the new rates being charged for their mortgages. People walked out of their houses causing the housing industry to slump which caused lower housing prices. Its a bit like the ARM's in the US today. If there is a glut of real estate on the market, the price of real estate goes down.

Right, that's why Calgary and Toronto's house prices were equally effected.

[FlamesAddiction]

The NEP was a necessary evil at the time. The country was in a severe energy crisis due to rising oil prices. Yes, it hurt Alberta temporarily, but it stopped the country from going into a depression.

It's also worth mentioning that Brian Mulroney kept the NEP for 2.5 years after he was elected even though he campaigned against it.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

Right, that's why Calgary and Toronto's house prices were equally effected.

Maybe because the price of the house in Toronto didn't double between 1973-1981.

[flamey_mcflame]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The NEP was a necessary evil at the time. The country was in a severe energy crisis due to rising oil prices. Yes, it hurt Alberta temporarily, but it stopped the country from going into a depression.

It's also worth mentioning that Brian Mulroney kept the NEP for 2.5 years after he was elected even though he campaigned against it.

Albertans should never help out the rest of our fellow Canadians. Hey just because we were lucky enough to lie on top of a bunch of oil doesn't mean that we didn't earn and deserve every last drop. I'm happy that I live in this province, but I think some people actually think we did something special as Albertans to have all this wealth. It's oil and its worth lots. Thats why this province is wealthy. Not because we are all a bunch of superhumans.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Hmm..check the interest rates in Canada at the during that time frame. Interest rates caused by Reaganomics. People's houses dropped in value because people couldn't afford the new rates being charged for their mortgages. People walked out of their houses causing the housing industry to slump which caused lower housing prices. Its a bit like the ARM's in the US today. If there is a glut of real estate on the market, the price of real estate goes down.

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Maybe because the price of the house in Toronto didn't double between 1973-1981.

So interest rates uniquely impacted the West because their house values rose faster than the East over the prior 8 years.... and not other impacts like the NEP.

Larf. flamey_mcflame = Johnny 99 version 2.0. Any calpuckist will tell you that.

[Dion]

nm