5 killed on Macleod trail crash - Update: GUILTY!

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Are you serious?

What the heck takes so long with these things? A month to figure out the punishment?

More than a month. How long has the trial been over? A month.

So a month till today, plus another month till September?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

Yeah, Der is looking for a suspended sentence, or 2-3 year house arrest, or 2 years less a day.

"No one in the world would be a more cautious driver then my client. After this indecent..."

Well Der can take that statement and shove it where the sun don't shine.

He sure as hell better not get house arrest, or anything less than 20-30 in prison.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Are you serious?

What the heck takes so long with these things? A month to figure out the punishment?

Dude had to sit through most of a day of people reading their victim impact statements. That, coupled with defence and the Crown both making their arguments today is quite a bit to digest. To think a sentence could be handed down from the bench or in a day or so is a tall order.

The sentencing decision will be written (natch) and pretty substantial. It will have to address all of the arguments raised by the defence and the Crown and incorporate into it relevant previous case law. The decision is going to have to be well-crafted because it's pretty likely the whole thing will be appealed. You and I would hate for the whole thing to be overturned because the higher court thought the trial judge missed something in his judgment.

A month to make a decision isn't THAT bad...

[Azure]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Dude had to sit through most of a day of people reading their victim impact statements. That, coupled with defence and the Crown both making their arguments today is quite a bit to digest. To think a sentence could be handed down from the bench or in a day or so is a tall order.

The sentencing decision will be written (natch) and pretty substantial. It will have to address all of the arguments raised by the defence and the Crown and incorporate into it relevant previous case law. The decision is going to have to be well-crafted because it's pretty likely the whole thing will be appealed. You and I would hate for the whole thing to be overturned because the higher court thought the trial judge missed something in his judgment.

A month to make a decision isn't THAT bad...

Well, if you put it that way.....

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Dude had to sit through most of a day of people reading their victim impact statements. That, coupled with defence and the Crown both making their arguments today is quite a bit to digest. To think a sentence could be handed down from the bench or in a day or so is a tall order.

The sentencing decision will be written (natch) and pretty substantial. It will have to address all of the arguments raised by the defence and the Crown and incorporate into it relevant previous case law. The decision is going to have to be well-crafted because it's pretty likely the whole thing will be appealed. You and I would hate for the whole thing to be overturned because the higher court thought the trial judge missed something in his judgment.

A month to make a decision isn't THAT bad...

Good point. It's not like the judge can hand down a ruling without thorough and extensive research and support. If he leaves a crack for appeal, the lawyers will make that a huge issue on appeal.

I would rather have a near bullet proof ruling after several weeks of work than one that can be overturned being handed down after a couple weeks.

[Bobblehead]

So in a month all the local news shows can recycle their, "It will finally all be over tomorrow" tearjerker stories.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

The crown wants 10-15yrs.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Dude had to sit through most of a day of people reading their victim impact statements. That, coupled with defence and the Crown both making their arguments today is quite a bit to digest. To think a sentence could be handed down from the bench or in a day or so is a tall order.

The sentencing decision will be written (natch) and pretty substantial. It will have to address all of the arguments raised by the defence and the Crown and incorporate into it relevant previous case law. The decision is going to have to be well-crafted because it's pretty likely the whole thing will be appealed. You and I would hate for the whole thing to be overturned because the higher court thought the trial judge missed something in his judgment.

A month to make a decision isn't THAT bad...

It sounds a lot more involved than I figured it would be. I thought it would just be a matter of looking at what the law states is an acceptable punishment and then looking at the historical sentences combined with the particular brutality of the event to come up with a sentence.

So, the judge basically has to write a book to support his decision?

[CaptainCrunch]

I would rather that the judge reviews everything and makes the right decision and doesn't give grounds for appeal.

My fear is that this guy will get some form of house arrest or a short sentence just because of the rarety of a manslaughter charge in this situation.

I would be more concerned about this guy being allowed to get behind the wheel of any vehicle ever again.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It sounds a lot more involved than I figured it would be. I thought it would just be a matter of looking at what the law states is an acceptable punishment and then looking at the historical sentences combined with the particular brutality of the event to come up with a sentence.

So, the judge basically has to write a book to support his decision?

That's it, in a nutshell. It's just a lot more work than I think you think it is. I think.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by fredr123

That's it, in a nutshell. It's just a lot more work than I think you think it is. I think.

That's what I thought...

[Azure]

10-15 years?

Seriously?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fredr123

That's it, in a nutshell. It's just a lot more work than I think you think it is. I think.

Typically, most people's jobs are more work than what people who don't do them think. It just seems like a really long time in between sessions. It makes me wonder how many people actually die of natural causes before justice is served.

Originally Posted by Azure

10-15 years?

Seriously?

Until a sentence is handed down you mean?

That sounds about right.

[fredr123]

The Honourable Judge B. R. Fraser has other matters to attend to outside of simply working on the Tschetter sentencing. He may have a few days here and there to work on the sentencing decision exclusively but he is probably also hearing docket days and other trials between now and September. Those other matters require him to spend time, effort and thought that could otherwise be used to render the Tschetter sentence quicker.

You also have to consider that there will be a good deal of precedential value to this decision. As defence counsel have suggested, manslaughter charges are rare to non-existent for vehicle-related deaths in Canada. This will be among the first (and definitely worst) on the books in Canada. The Crown will look to this case as a new high-water mark for deaths caused by reckless/dangerous/drunk drivers and will seek to rely on it to obtain tougher sentences for people who kill others with their car. It will serve all in the legal community well for Judge Fraser to get this right.

To compare this apple to an orange, the Supreme Court in 2008 averaged about 4 months between the time an appeal was heard and the day judgment was released: http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca/stat/html/cat5-eng.asp

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

The crown wants 10-15yrs.

That's pretty sad that a family of five lives aren't worth more than 3 years each.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Dude had to sit through most of a day of people reading their victim impact statements. That, coupled with defence and the Crown both making their arguments today is quite a bit to digest. To think a sentence could be handed down from the bench or in a day or so is a tall order.

The sentencing decision will be written (natch) and pretty substantial. It will have to address all of the arguments raised by the defence and the Crown and incorporate into it relevant previous case law. The decision is going to have to be well-crafted because it's pretty likely the whole thing will be appealed. You and I would hate for the whole thing to be overturned because the higher court thought the trial judge missed something in his judgment.

A month to make a decision isn't THAT bad...

Was going to ask if the guy at least gets to focus on it during that time, but according to this:

Originally Posted by fredr123

The Honourable Judge B. R. Fraser has other matters to attend to outside of simply working on the Tschetter sentencing. He may have a few days here and there to work on the sentencing decision exclusively but he is probably also hearing docket days and other trials between now and September. Those other matters require him to spend time, effort and thought that could otherwise be used to render the Tschetter sentence quicker.

You also have to consider that there will be a good deal of precedential value to this decision. As defence counsel have suggested, manslaughter charges are rare to non-existent for vehicle-related deaths in Canada. This will be among the first (and definitely worst) on the books in Canada. The Crown will look to this case as a new high-water mark for deaths caused by reckless/dangerous/drunk drivers and will seek to rely on it to obtain tougher sentences for people who kill others with their car. It will serve all in the legal community well for Judge Fraser to get this right.

To compare this apple to an orange, the Supreme Court in 2008 averaged about 4 months between the time an appeal was heard and the day judgment was released: http://www.scc-csc.gc.ca/stat/html/cat5-eng.asp

He doesn't. Being a judge must be tough work. Trying to remember the details of many cases that overlap in various ways, having to write those long documents detailing why the perp was sentenced to what...

My personal opinion is that he should be made an example of. The bottle in the hopper drastically tips the scales.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't think that the hopper makes a difference as they didn't pursue anything to do with impaired driving because they couldn't prove that he'd been drinking.

[burn_this_city]

They still found him guilty of obstruction of justice. I feel that act is the most deplorable of all. You've just killed 5 people and you try and cover it up.

[redforever]

He has been given an 8 year jail term.

[Bertuzzied]

that is excellent news.