Alberta Politics & Government Thread 4.0

[DJones]

Originally Posted by indes

THATS WHAT BEING A COMMUNITY/PROVINCE/COUNTRY IS. Your projection of FYGM is unreal. JFC there are some caricatures on this board but you are by far the most disassociated from reality.

I like your ranking of community/province/country

I very much agree that's how things should be ordered and prioritized

[indes]

Originally Posted by DJones

I like your ranking of community/province/country

I very much agree that's how things should be ordered and prioritized

Umm...it is like that.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by DJones

Because they want more money and control is the obvious answer.

Alberta gives more per capita but has a small population. Meaning they aren't making decisions. So not only would you get a raise you would now be the one making decisions. And ya, that same logic would likely go to smaller circles than the province. They would want more money and control to their community as well over the province.

If you are happy putting all the money into a pot and deciding things collectively thats fine but is it actually that hard to understand why some people are just like nah, we'll just deal with it internally.

Except the cost of everything Alberta would lose, then have to pay for, and set up would offset the gains.

Yes it is hard to understand why some people think that way. Not one thing the provincial government in Alberta has done should make anyone think they are capable of dealing with anything competently.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by indes

Umm...it is like that.

Then why do people get so worked up when someone suggests taking money from the feds and giving it to provinces/Municipalities.

Canada has always been a top down society that value legislative efficient governments rather compromise. Municipalities are beaten down step children in our system begging for scraps.

[MonaTone]

Originally Posted by DJones

Yes, as I said in like the following sentence there is many ways that Canada could harm the country. Be very easy to set up trade embargo's/tariffs/regulatory on a surrounded land locked region. That's essentially why its a dead idea.

This should be rewritten as "there are many ways that Alberta would harm itself through this".

For some reason ya'll position 'Canada' as a big bad boogeyman, but if you punch yourself in the dick you can't point blame anyone else.

[troutman]

The people in the Pass that are pro-separation all look like Bounty Hunters.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

Except the cost of everything Alberta would lose, then have to pay for, and set up would offset the gains.

Yes it is hard to understand why some people think that way. Not one thing the provincial government in Alberta has done should make anyone think they are capable of dealing with anything competently.

Yes, they would have to pay for their own military, start up their own CRA, ect.

I don't think that will be news to anyone.

[indes]

Originally Posted by DJones

Then why do people get so worked up when someone suggests taking money from the feds and giving it to provinces/Municipalities.

Canada has always been a top down society that value legislative efficient governments rather compromise. Municipalities are beaten down step children in our system begging for scraps.

Because you shouldn't be taking money from somewhere to shuffle it somewhere else on the whims of people who think they know best. The fact is that there are independent tax rates (federal, provincial, municipal) and independent expenses for a reason. Cities collect money for roads, if there's not enough money to fix the roads the answer isn't to take money from national defense spending.

And yes, Albertan municipalities are getting shafted. No, it's not the federal government doing it. You can't sit here asking for more federal money and less federal influence at the same time - that's not how anything works.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by MonaTone

This should be rewritten as "there are many ways that Alberta would harm itself through this".

For some reason ya'll position 'Canada' as a big bad boogeyman, but if you punch yourself in the dick you can't point blame anyone else.

Well there would be a massive power imbalance. Alberta would love free trade to continue. It would be insane not to support that on a landlocked nation.

But as you said, Canada would be incentivized to create economic barriers. Of course they would. They aren't going to approve a CUSMA type deal with Alberta. They'd tell them to go #### off.

[MonaTone]

Originally Posted by DJones

Well there would be a massive power imbalance. Alberta would love free trade to continue. It would be insane not to support that on a landlocked nation.

But as you said, Canada would be incentivized to create economic barriers. Of course they would. They aren't going to approve a CUSMA type deal with Alberta. They'd tell them to go #### off.

You mean after Alberta told them to f-off in this scenario? Imagine that.

I think there might be a flaw in the "I want the cake and eat it too" base philosophy of this movement.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by indes

Because you shouldn't be taking money from somewhere to shuffle it somewhere else on the whims of people who think they know best. The fact is that there are independent tax rates (federal, provincial, municipal) and independent expenses for a reason. Cities collect money for roads, if there's not enough money to fix the roads the answer isn't to take money from national defense spending.

And yes, Albertan municipalities are getting shafted. No, it's not the federal government doing it. You can't sit here asking for more federal money and less federal influence at the same time - that's not how anything works.

No you take it from the endless federal programs that take money in and then give it to provinces/municipalities/whoever else to spend it on their own jurisdiction responsibilities.

Take it from the housing fund, the infrastructure bank, there's like a 150 billion right there in the last decade. It's not even their jurisdiction. They just are the ones with all the money so they just move in and make the decision for the municipalities.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by MonaTone

You mean after Alberta told them to f-off in this scenario? Imagine that.

I think there might be a flaw in the "I want the cake and eat it too" base philosophy of this movement.

Yes, being a landlocked country in a middle of a messy divorce with a much larger country is a death sentence for the whole idea.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by DJones

Yes, they would have to pay for their own military, start up their own CRA, ect.

I don't think that will be news to anyone.

So no money saved. Costs would likely increase. K.. Makes sense.

[indes]

Originally Posted by DJones

No you take it from the endless federal programs that take money in and then give it to provinces/municipalities/whoever else to spend it on their own jurisdiction responsibilities.

Take it from the housing fund, the infrastructure bank, there's like a 150 billion right there in the last decade. It's not even their jurisdiction. They just are the ones with all the money so they just move in and make the decision for the municipalities.

Who decides which programs to cut and which ones to fund? You? Let me guess you want all the money to go to stuff you would use because its a better use of funs than the programs you don't . Maybe we should set up some sort of a system where we could have representatives, we could even have them represent a municipality or a group of like municipalities. THEN we could have them all go to the same place to come up with ideas to drive policy! They could weigh the different opinions and needs of the many municipalities across the country and decide where to spend the money!! I think we would have to make sure they only have a handful of years before they need to be re-selected, so if you didn't like what they were doing we could pick someone else.

God damnit DJones, I think we did it. A system to represent your locale within a federation.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by indes

Who decides which programs to cut and which ones to fund? You? Let me guess you want all the money to go to stuff you would use because its a better use of funs than the programs you don't . Maybe we should set up some sort of a system where we could have representatives, we could even have them represent a municipality or a group of like municipalities. THEN we could have them all go to the same place to come up with ideas to drive policy! They could weigh the different opinions and needs of the many municipalities across the country and decide where to spend the money!! I think we would have to make sure they only have a handful of years before they need to be re-selected, so if you didn't like what they were doing we could pick someone else.

God damnit DJones, I think we did it. A system to represent your locale within a federation.

Or we just let those municipal representative make their own decisions...

Why do we have to collectively make a decision about housing or infrastructure? Different places have different needs and wants. I don't want to be linked with Toronto. They've actively made things worse for decades

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by DJones

Or we just let those municipal representative make their own decisions...

Why do we have to collectively make a decision about housing or infrastructure? Different places have different needs and wants. I don't want to be linked with Toronto. They've actively made things worse for decades

How exactly has Toronto made life in Alberta worse?

[indes]

Originally Posted by DJones

Or we just let those municipal representative make their own decisions...

Why do we have to collectively make a decision about housing or infrastructure? Different places have different needs and wants. I don't want to be linked with Toronto. They've actively made things worse for decades

How is your MP from Toronto? Or they just let Torontonians make decisions? Like an app, they all just get a notification "Vote now on issuing financial aid for DJones support cat"? I'm confused how you think you're not represented. Or how everyone is out to get you, and Alberta specifically.

[Roughneck]

The irony is that it's not the municipalities or the federal government getting in the way, but in Toronto you have the province getting in the way of municipal decision making, and the Alberta government has been copying them.


The worst thing the city of Calgary has to deal with is the Government of Alberta.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by DJones

Or we just let those municipal representative make their own decisions...

Why do we have to collectively make a decision about housing or infrastructure? Different places have different needs and wants. I don't want to be linked with Toronto. They've actively made things worse for decades

Can you please answer something for me, in regards to Alberta separating from Canada.

It seems a lot of people who support Alberta separating believe that their new Alberta would be the exact land area of the old Alberta.

Let's say it happens. In your opinion, what would happen with Canadian National Parks, and the land that belongs to the indigenous people.
What do you feel the borders of the new country of Alberta would be?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by troutman

The people in the Pass that are pro-separation all look like Bounty Hunters.

fat guts and extra long mullets?