Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

No, and maybe I'm spit balling, but, maybe this is why the Church and the pope are unwilling to do a public apology, because it would open the flood gates on massive class action law suites.

INAL but I thought Canada had an apology law where an apology given is not an admission of guilt and cannot have a bearing against someone when considering fault or liability.

[DevilsAdvocate]

People here are all "Why has the government been just paying lip service and never doing anything? Why don't they actually DO something concrete?"

In the link below, Chantal Hebert hits the nail on the head. Because they can. There is extremely little upside to putting government resources into fixing the problem. How many people in this thread are going to the ballot box and voting on the basis of whether the Shoal Lake First Nations have clean drinking water? According to Ipsos in 2019, the top concerns for Canadian voters, by order of importance, were "Health Care", "Cost of Living", "Climate Change", "Growing the Economy", "High Taxes", "Housing Affordability", "Immigration", "Social Inequality", "Seniors Care", "Corruption in Government", "Improving Education", "Government Debt", "Unemployment".

Where is "Indigenous Issues" in the list? I don't see it. People just don't care. So if a government makes all kinds of flowery promises and does not keep them because it is too expensive and too complicated... that's fine. There is absolutely no political cost to breaking your promises.

By the time an election is called, this will be off the front page of the newspapers and it will all be forgotten. And we will move on and pretend it all didn't happen. Like Canada always has done.

Listening to the Tragically Hip's last concert, I turned to my wife and I said "I feel incredibly sad that Gord is likely going to die soon. But at least he won't have to witness just how depressingly horribly Trudeau will not live up to his expectations."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north...ople-1.3729996

"At Issue" from last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOcflp_pxbg

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by belsarius

INAL but I thought Canada had an apology law where an apology given is not an admission of guilt and cannot have a bearing against someone when considering fault or liability.

I don't know for sure, I was just spit balling.

[V]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

People here are all "Why has the government been just paying lip service and never doing anything? Why don't they actually DO something concrete?" ...

Your post is depressingly accurate.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

No, and maybe I'm spit balling, but, maybe this is why the Church and the pope are unwilling to do a public apology, because it would open the flood gates on massive class action law suites.

I think for the Church there is a more basic issue, the whole point of their existence is predicated on moral infallibility, the pope/church tells you how to live, they are the arbiters of what is right and wrong, if they admit that not only are they not infallible but are in fact systemically guilty of some of the worst crimes in human history then why would any catholic listen to them ever again?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

People here are all "Why has the government been just paying lip service and never doing anything? Why don't they actually DO something concrete?"

In the link below, Chantal Hebert hits the nail on the head. Because they can. There is extremely little upside to putting government resources into fixing the problem. How many people in this thread are going to the ballot box and voting on the basis of whether the Shoal Lake First Nations have clean drinking water? According to Ipsos in 2019, the top concerns for Canadian voters, by order of importance, were "Health Care", "Cost of Living", "Climate Change", "Growing the Economy", "High Taxes", "Housing Affordability", "Immigration", "Social Inequality", "Seniors Care", "Corruption in Government", "Improving Education", "Government Debt", "Unemployment".

Where is "Indigenous Issues" in the list? I don't see it. People just don't care. So if a government makes all kinds of flowery promises and does not keep them because it is too expensive and too complicated... that's fine. There is absolutely no political cost to breaking your promises.

By the time an election is called, this will be off the front page of the newspapers and it will all be forgotten. And we will move on and pretend it all didn't happen. Like Canada always has done.

Listening to the Tragically Hip's last concert, I turned to my wife and I said "I feel incredibly sad that Gord is likely going to die soon. But at least he won't have to witness just how depressingly horribly Trudeau will not live up to his expectations."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north...ople-1.3729996

"At Issue" from last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOcflp_pxbg

I've finally figured out how to be a politician, after watching the government talking about this plan last night for reconciliation.

So basically, you study it 6 years ago (This isn't just reconciliation). Appoint a blue ribbon panel of judge. Get the report, throw it into the bottom of your desk and it gets buried beneath your competitive yo yo collection.

Then something tragic happens. ie 200+ bodies found, 518 complaints of sexual harassment in the military. The poop hits the fan.

You reach past your yoyo's and find the old study and one of two things happen.

Press Conference number 1 (the new plan)

Talk about taking your niece, nephew kid, random kid for a walk and you come across a protest or they see a news paper article and ask "Why are they so sad"

You look at the camera sadly, "Because they have been horribly abused"

So the child in your story responds with tears "We need to do something"

"So this government with a solid track record in reconciliation, woman's rights etc is going to spring into action"

Pulls up a powerpoint with impressive pictures, vague statements, theoretical actions and a big dollar figure that will never be spent.

"So we're doing this stuff, we're doing it for the children."

Nods sadly with a small tear. "And I'd like to thank my awesome collegues and these different groups."

"We need to do this so we can look our children in the eye and promise them a better world."

Then the camera goes off and she throws the memory stick with the power point into a drawer and says "That is that" Now "Where is my expense report"

Then 5 years from now, another tragedy. Wash repeat blah blah blah


Or Scenario two, keep the kids story in there

"So our government which has promised to make the world a better place and has shown its commitment to blah blah blah, is commissioning a study headed by some retired politician or judge, to come up with a plan" (Though this was done 6 years ago.

Camera goes off the politician sneers and says "That'll keep em occupied"

And its not like its just the Liberals though they seem to be the kings of ragging the puck. But its everyone.

In my next life, I'm going into politics.

[Monahammer]

+ if the catholic church does "admit" wrongdoing in this genocide it will create a domino effect of other global genocides that must be owned.

[GGG]

The CCSD in Calgary has with the province commissioned a study to review changing the name of Bishop Grandin School. The study is due to be complete June 30th.

I thought that sounds sort of reasonable. Then I realized the report isn’t due until June 30, 2022.

[timun]

LOL, CBE changes Langevin School's name back to Riverside in a day.

CCSD needs 13 months to study whether they ought to change the name or not.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GGG

The CCSD in Calgary has with the province commissioned a study to review changing the name of Bishop Grandin School. The study is due to be complete June 30th.

I thought that sounds sort of reasonable. Then I realized the report isn’t due until June 30, 2022.

They need a study for that? What’s the worst outcome that can happen if they change the name?

They could have avoided the need for a study if they appointed a panel or created a commission to see if a study was really necessary.

Canada has lost a lot of clout dealing with this issue. Hard to stand up against China in defense of Uyghers or demand compensation from Iran for killing Canadians when the government can’t even take care of its own ####.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They need a study for that? What’s the worst outcome that can happen if they change the name?

They could have avoided the need for a study if they appointed a panel or created a commission to see if a study was really necessary.

Canada has lost a lot of clout dealing with this issue. Hard to stand up against China in defense of Uyghers or demand compensation from Iran for killing Canadians when the government can’t even take care of its own ####.

Well, Cliff for one declared it virtue signalling and not meaningful.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Well, Cliff for one declared it virtue signalling and not meaningful.

It's odd that naming the schools in the first place doesn't constitute "virtue-signalling" but renaming them does. No idea why.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by timun

LOL, CBE changes Langevin School's name back to Riverside in a day.

CCSD needs 13 months to study whether they ought to change the name or not.

To be fair, it was in the works for a long time beforehand. Still, I don’t get why the CCSD is dragging its feet. Name it after some old saint or whatever like other catholic schools.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

They need a study for that? What’s the worst outcome that can happen if they change the name?

They could have avoided the need for a study if they appointed a panel or created a commission to see if a study was really necessary.

Canada has lost a lot of clout dealing with this issue. Hard to stand up against China in defense of Uyghers or demand compensation from Iran for killing Canadians when the government can’t even take care of its own ####.

Canada doesn't have any clout. Nobody thinks about us let alone cares what we think. Canadians have delusions of grandeur on our place in the world.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Wormius

To be fair, it was in the works for a long time beforehand. Still, I don’t get why the CCSD is dragging its feet. Name it after some old saint or whatever like other catholic schools.

Better still declare that the Catholic faith has no moral right to be anywhere near a school or children in any way shape or form and that the idea of a Catholic School District is as offensive and absurd as a Nazi Jewish appreciation society or a KKK chapter of the NAACP, that they are handing the schools over to the regular school district and from here on in like any other pedo they are going to stay a 100 metres away from any kids.

[Vena]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

+ if the catholic church does "admit" wrongdoing in this genocide it will create a domino effect of other global genocides that must be owned.

This is one of those - I don't want to live on this planet post.

And not because it's untrue.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Duruss

I never knew they did that, do you maybe mind sharing a photo? And what did your Grandmother think/feel about being labeled like that?.

My grandma doesn't ever talk about it - it was a secret. My general impression (from an aunt) is that there was a worry about my grandma getting taken away as a kid. I don't think they had much money.

I honestly hesitate to bring this up. I haven't been negatively affected in basically any way. Canada owes a duty to the survivors of this tragedy, but that isn't me (or my family). I look and act like someone who had a middle class white upbringing, because that's true. I only mentioned it in the context of the caste system discussion, as this has been true for a long time. The half breed commission document I've included a scan from is from 1901, in Medicine Hat. It was the "North-West" commission, because Alberta and Saskatchewan were still part of the NWT at the time.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate

People here are all "Why has the government been just paying lip service and never doing anything? Why don't they actually DO something concrete?"

In the link below, Chantal Hebert hits the nail on the head. Because they can. There is extremely little upside to putting government resources into fixing the problem. How many people in this thread are going to the ballot box and voting on the basis of whether the Shoal Lake First Nations have clean drinking water? According to Ipsos in 2019, the top concerns for Canadian voters, by order of importance, were "Health Care", "Cost of Living", "Climate Change", "Growing the Economy", "High Taxes", "Housing Affordability", "Immigration", "Social Inequality", "Seniors Care", "Corruption in Government", "Improving Education", "Government Debt", "Unemployment".

Where is "Indigenous Issues" in the list? I don't see it. People just don't care. So if a government makes all kinds of flowery promises and does not keep them because it is too expensive and too complicated... that's fine. There is absolutely no political cost to breaking your promises.

By the time an election is called, this will be off the front page of the newspapers and it will all be forgotten. And we will move on and pretend it all didn't happen. Like Canada always has done.

Listening to the Tragically Hip's last concert, I turned to my wife and I said "I feel incredibly sad that Gord is likely going to die soon. But at least he won't have to witness just how depressingly horribly Trudeau will not live up to his expectations."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north...ople-1.3729996

"At Issue" from last night:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOcflp_pxbg

This is 100% true. But certainly not unique to Canada and indigenous issues. You go to the ballot box with a whole handful of issues you care about and a very narrow choice of candidates from which to choose.

At some point we hope our elected officials care about more than retaining power. I'm not as cynical as some, so I do actually believe some do.

[GirlySports]

But because no one really cares about the issue, a government isn't going to lose an election over if they give Shoal Lake First Nations drinking water. Giving or not giving is not a ballot box issue, so just give. Do the right thing.

For example, raise the GST back to 7%, take the difference and give it all to First Nations. Nobody will say boo. Nobody is going to change their vote over it. It doesn't have to be a flowery campaign promise, just do it.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by rubecube

It's odd that naming the schools in the first place doesn't constitute "virtue-signalling" but renaming them does. No idea why.

Or, just disagreeing with any take on any item. Nobody does that for reasons other than showboating their own morality.