[PGT] Best team ever 3 Flames 1

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

If a team has really bad pro scouts maybe a team or two would still view him as a top pairing defenseman but I'm pretty sure most teams would be looking at him as 2nd/3rd pairing at the most. Anderson was an ascending player until he got paired with Gio.

And Gio was a top player until Andersson was promoted

It’s not just one side of the street that is dirty here

Father Time is coming for Gio and Rasmus’s abilities have perhaps been overestimated

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

Giordano still has a lot of trade value if the Flames wanted to go that route IMO. It would be a rebuilding type trade for picks and prospects though

With another year to go on his contract and his play this year and last, i’s be surprised if some team just took his contract. Cap is king this year. Everyone wants it, no one has any.


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[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And Gio was a top player until Andersson was promoted

It’s not just one side of the street that is dirty here

Father Time is coming for Gio and Rasmus’s abilities have perhaps been overestimated

I just don't agree with this, regarding Gio. He won the Norris same year the Flames got smashed by the Avs in the playoffs. That's 2 full years ago right? He came off that bicep tear, worked like hell to get his game back, and had a really strong year. In the playoffs, he got walked around (wound up kneeing Landiskog if I remember right) by the Avs fast skating, puck-carrying attackers. That was where I started watching both the team, and most especially, Giordano, in terms of "Are they slow?"

The next year began with Game 1 against ... the Avs. And Peters had all summer to develop a strategy, the team had months to get ready for it, and they got absolutely wrecked, totally skated around, it was just game 6 of the playoffs with a 4 month break between! And the rest of that year, it was really noticeable that Gio had lost a pace, the faster players in the league get around him a lot, and his pinch-and-recover abilities were not as sharp.

This year, he's looked slow, old, pretty bad in a lot of games. We saw the best of Gio in the first couple Sutter-coached games. But it was an unsustainable flash.

If you want to couch this in terms of D partners, I'd be a lot happier saying Gio was protected by a fleet-footed Brody in transitional play (and Brody was protected by a stalwart Gio in their d zone play). A good partnership. I don't think Rasmus is making Gio bad, it's more that he can't cover for Gio's lapses the way Brody could, and those lapses are more frequent and worse this year on top of it.

Is Rasmus fantastic in all phases? No, we are seeing some bad decisions from him this year. But the idea that he is the key factor in Gio's regression ... to me it's been obvious for a long time that Gio had peaked.

The defense looks really mediocre this year, thank God for Tanev (who has had an obvious and beneficial effect on Hanifin's game too). I think Ras is capable of being a top 4 guy, but in all honesty, I think Gio is bringing Ras's game down a notch. I think the team needs a top pairing left side defenseman at this point.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

I’m not even sure its debatable, we are the worst franchise in the NHL.

Lol, this is definitely debatable.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

Me being the loser I am still wasting the prime of my life cheering for the most middling franchise in the NHL

.

Try having lived through the Young Guns era.......It was harder, I mean not a lot harder. At some point this organization owes me something......right?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Iggy_12

Honestly can't wait for the following to happen

Flames doing absolutely nothing at the deadline citing covid

8-2 record in the last 10 games to screw our draft pick up

Players telling us how its a tough season, covid was difficult affected the season blah blah blah 1000 excuses

Flames draft the next NHL bust in the first round missing on a future superstar a few picks after theirs

Treliving to keep his job and continue to be scared to make franchise changing moves while telling us how he was in on every deal for every big name player but not acquiring anyone.

Me being the loser I am still wasting the prime of my life cheering for the most middling franchise in the NHL

The worst part about this team is not only do we suck, we don’t really have a future to be excited about, couple ok prospects but mostly empty cabinets. The young players we’d want to keep are not first liners. I’m jealous of Buffalo, at least they have Eichel. I’m not even sure its debatable, we are the worst franchise in the NHL.

Meh. If you feel like a loser cheering for your team stop doing it.
It's easy to cheer for a winning team.
Cheering for a team that fails more than it succeeds is hard. I don't judge anyone who doesn't want to do that. But I am always puzzled by those that feel embarrassed by the team they cheer for or a "loser".
Go cheer for someone else.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And Gio was a top player until Andersson was promoted

It’s not just one side of the street that is dirty here

Father Time is coming for Gio and Rasmus’s abilities have perhaps been overestimated

Gio was trash in the back half of last season and into the playoffs as not even Brodie could prop him up and look what Brodie has done for Rielly. Anderson started playing poorly the moment he was made Gio's permanent partner. Anderson needs to take blame for his play but he's just not fast enough to bail out Gio when he makes poor pinches and turnovers at the opposition blue line.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Meh. If you feel like a loser cheering for your team stop doing it.
It's easy to cheer for a winning team.
Cheering for a team that fails more than it succeeds is hard. I don't judge anyone who doesn't want to do that. But I am always puzzled by those that feel embarrassed by the team they cheer for or a "loser".
Go cheer for someone else.

Flames whoas reflective of what’s going on in the City right now. With Covid fatigue, ongoing bad news in the patch, business and job losses, everyone is in a major funk so people’s emotions are naturally magnified.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Try having lived through the Young Guns era.......It was harder, I mean not a lot harder. At some point this organization owes me something......right?

The big difference (at least, for me) is that we knew the Young Guns were bad. So we appreciated the effort (well, some of us did as we watched people filing out of the Dome after the second period...)

However, the 2021 version of the Flames had expectations of being good, maybe even really good. I think this particular flavour of faceplant is much harder to bear.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Gio was trash in the back half of last season and into the playoffs as not even Brodie could prop him up and look what Brodie has done for Rielly. Anderson started playing poorly the moment he was made Gio's permanent partner. Anderson needs to take blame for his play but he's just not fast enough to bail out Gio when he makes poor pinches and turnovers at the opposition blue line.

Trash?

Why the hyperbole?

Giordan's stats in the last half of last season.

CF% 13th
CA60 23rd
xGF% 16th
xGA60 23rd.

That's out of guys that shouldered top four minutes across the league.

He was a clear cut top pairing defenseman in the last half of last year, not "trash" at all.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Hanifin is better offensively when it comes to transitioning and carrying the puck up ice. Gio is tons better in the offensive zone - I don’t know why.

Rasmus is just not able to make up the ground when Gio gets stuffed, which is happening more often. And Rasmus has a lot of bad pinches himself.

Hanfiin is weird. Prior to Ward being fired, he's bad defensively and have no sense of attack on the o-zone. After Ward gets fired, he's definitely more offensive. Defensively -meh.

I think the Gio misses Brodie. I think we all miss seeing Gio and Brodie work their magic. I also kind of miss Hamonic as the second right pairing. A lot of people will disagree, but Hamonic was supposed to be a their stay-at-home type D-man on the right flank. However, of all the seasons, except the first one with the Flames, he's done quite well jumping in on plays and has a pretty good point shot. You don't get that from Tanev at all. Tave is very sound defensively and corrects most of Hanifin's shortcomings. So, a lot of people complain about Hamonic for the absolute wrong reasons. Sure, he's not a pretty boy like Hanifin, but he gets it done and adds toughness to the team.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Hanifin was bad defensively? Him and Tanev pretty much gave up nothing in the first part of the season.

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

I just don't agree with this, regarding Gio. He won the Norris same year the Flames got smashed by the Avs in the playoffs. That's 2 full years ago right? He came off that bicep tear, worked like hell to get his game back, and had a really strong year. In the playoffs, he got walked around (wound up kneeing Landiskog if I remember right) by the Avs fast skating, puck-carrying attackers. That was where I started watching both the team, and most especially, Giordano, in terms of "Are they slow?"

The next year began with Game 1 against ... the Avs. And Peters had all summer to develop a strategy, the team had months to get ready for it, and they got absolutely wrecked, totally skated around, it was just game 6 of the playoffs with a 4 month break between! And the rest of that year, it was really noticeable that Gio had lost a pace, the faster players in the league get around him a lot, and his pinch-and-recover abilities were not as sharp.

This year, he's looked slow, old, pretty bad in a lot of games. We saw the best of Gio in the first couple Sutter-coached games. But it was an unsustainable flash.

If you want to couch this in terms of D partners, I'd be a lot happier saying Gio was protected by a fleet-footed Brody in transitional play (and Brody was protected by a stalwart Gio in their d zone play). A good partnership. I don't think Rasmus is making Gio bad, it's more that he can't cover for Gio's lapses the way Brody could, and those lapses are more frequent and worse this year on top of it.

Is Rasmus fantastic in all phases? No, we are seeing some bad decisions from him this year. But the idea that he is the key factor in Gio's regression ... to me it's been obvious for a long time that Gio had peaked.

The defense looks really mediocre this year, thank God for Tanev (who has had an obvious and beneficial effect on Hanifin's game too). I think Ras is capable of being a top 4 guy, but in all honesty, I think Gio is bringing Ras's game down a notch. I think the team needs a top pairing left side defenseman at this point.

I wonder if a Gio-Kylington bottom pairing would make sense. Kylington has the wheels to be comparable to Brodie and also seems to be prone to similar brain-farts, though I don't think he has the shown the ability to defend as well as Brodie did in his prime but it's possible it could be developed. Kylington also has a hell of a better shot than Brodie which might be nice as Gio's wristers from the point just don't seem that effective these days.

The tough thing though is do you think Valimaki-Andersson can cut it as a second pair, or do you reunite Hanifin-Andersson (which looked pretty good previously when they were put together) and let Tanev help Valimaki in a similar way that he helped Hughes in the past?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And Gio was a top player until Andersson was promoted

It’s not just one side of the street that is dirty here

Father Time is coming for Gio and Rasmus’s abilities have perhaps been overestimated

Rasmus Andersson is no TJ Brodie.

If y’all that the pining for Paul Byron was too much the last five years, just wait.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Hanfiin is weird. Prior to Ward being fired, he's bad defensively and have no sense of attack on the o-zone. After Ward gets fired, he's definitely more offensive. Defensively -meh.

I think the Gio misses Brodie. I think we all miss seeing Gio and Brodie work their magic. I also kind of miss Hamonic as the second right pairing. A lot of people will disagree, but Hamonic was supposed to be a their stay-at-home type D-man on the right flank. However, of all the seasons, except the first one with the Flames, he's done quite well jumping in on plays and has a pretty good point shot. You don't get that from Tanev at all. Tave is very sound defensively and corrects most of Hanifin's shortcomings. So, a lot of people complain about Hamonic for the absolute wrong reasons. Sure, he's not a pretty boy like Hanifin, but he gets it done and adds toughness to the team.

Man, you and I see the game entirely differently.

Hanifin is slowly turning into a #1 d-man who can defend in all situations and drive the play into the offensive zone. Creativity once in the zone needs work, but he's rediscovering his natural talents.

We knew we would miss Brodie a little, but missing Hamonic? No sir, not really. I like the guy, but he treads water defensively and adds nothing offensively at this point in his career.

But then you say he had better abilities than Tanev in terms of jumping up in the play and having a strong point shot? You remember him differently than I do. He may have tried that, but he would often get caught leading to an odd-man chance the other way. Tanev only picks spots where he knows it won't lead to anything the other way, and so he doesn't do it often, but he can be just as effective getting his shot off when the opportunity is there.

I won't question Hamonic's heart or toughness, but there's no shortage of that in Tanev either. The guy is a warrior and does everything he's capable of to win games.

Honestly, the one bright spot in this season has been the play of Hanifin and Tanev. Everyone else has been horribly inconsistent or downright terrible.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

This team has no confidence and I think that's a big issue right now. I actually don't think it's necessarily effort.

To me they've tried Hard under Sutter, but just haven't really had any puck luck and just lacking confidence offensively.

No confidence to take a risk or make a play that could lead in a good chance.

Looking at the last 10 games which aligns with Ward being fired.

4-5-1 for 9 points - which is bad. But the underlying numbers are okay.

Defensively they have been really strong. In that time we are 7th in the league and 2nd in the division at 1.99 xGA/60 at 5v5.

They are struggling to create offense at 2.26 xGF/60, which ranks 13th. Which actually isn't that bad. Real issue there is they aren't getting into the high danger areas, and that's been the issue going back to the start of the 19-20 season. They generate 9 high danger chances per 60 at 5v5, which ranks 23rd.

Biggest issue has been the percentages lately:

Shooting Percentage: 7.20% (26th)
Save Percentage: .887 (28th)

Can't get a save, and can't buy a goal. The fact they are 4-5-1 considering they sit 26th and 28th in those two stats respectively over their last 10 games is pretty lucky in itself.

Isn’t this Darryl Sutter hockey though? High corsi, but low scoring, low event games, win 2-1 by grinding it out with your opponent? Darryl’s teams have always had trouble scoring and even his Kings team missed the playoffs a couple times and barely squeaked in other times. But they did get to the dance, look out because they played playoff style hockey. The Flames having trouble scoring under Darryl Sutter is not a surprise to me, it was expected.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Isn’t this Darryl Sutter hockey though? High corsi, but low scoring, low event games, win 2-1 by grinding it out with your opponent? Darryl’s teams have always had trouble scoring and even his Kings team missed the playoffs a couple times and barely squeaked in other times. But they did get to the dance, look out because they played playoff style hockey. The Flames having trouble scoring under Darryl Sutter is not a surprise to me, it was expected.

Yes, Sutter’s game plan is to get a narrow lead and then protect like crazy in the 3rd. It works sometimes but the margin for error is pretty tough and you need everyone, especially your goalie, to really shut the opposition down. Watch them with the one goal lead last game - they gave up a heavy forecheck and sagged back. And then failed to execute the zone clearances.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Trash?

Why the hyperbole?

Giordan's stats in the last half of last season.

CF% 13th
CA60 23rd
xGF% 16th
xGA60 23rd.

That's out of guys that shouldered top four minutes across the league.

He was a clear cut top pairing defenseman in the last half of last year, not "trash" at all.

Okay maybe I was a little harsh. His decline started in the 2nd half and he was trash in the playoffs.

[jmerkel3d]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I'm really hoping Brad is fired before we get to the offseason.



Unfortunately this team's history would suggest that if they do move on from Treliving, it'll be way too late and nothing will get done because the new guy is still "assessing what he has."



We'll pin all our hopes on the shiny new pick in a weak-ass draft, rinse and repeat.

Welcome to being a fan of a professional sports team...

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[nieuwy-89]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Meh. If you feel like a loser cheering for your team stop doing it.
It's easy to cheer for a winning team.
Cheering for a team that fails more than it succeeds is hard. I don't judge anyone who doesn't want to do that. But I am always puzzled by those that feel embarrassed by the team they cheer for or a "loser".
Go cheer for someone else.

I agree we all choose who to cheer for and how we do it. The die-hard fans (i.e. if you have a CP account you are probably a die-hard Flames fan) aren't going anywhere. Suffering is part of the deal.

I really worry though about the future of the franchise. I feel there is a generation of fans being lost. My kids - surprise surprise - have all been Flames fans despite the fact that we live in the Edmonton area. They are growing up now and making their own decisions based on the product they see on the ice, and they are moving on.

The "pull" to cheer for a superstar like McDavid, or a stacked team like Tampa Bay, is hard to resist when you can watch every game of every team and follow them wherever you live. Location doesn't matter anymore.

I was recently in Southern Alberta and saw more oilers/mcdavid paraphenelia/jerseys than Flames logos. Its a big problem for the business side of the franchise.