Flames - how to cure the rot for 2019/20

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Good news is that Kuznetsov was drafted 26th overall. E have a chance to find one with this pick.

Sweet,. Now all we have to do is wait 7 years...

The asset dye for this team was cast long ago. The players to hell this roster should've already been drafted.

Flames were picking 14th overall in 2012, after finishing 9th with 37 wins.

The Flames didn't have a 2nd round pick in 2012 because they included it in the disastrous Robyn Regehr trade to Buffalo, so they agree to trade down...WITH BUFFALO. Buffalo finished 9th in the east, but they weren't going to move their own pick, they moved the pick they got from Nashville for Paul Gaustad to Calgary. Because you see Buffalo was drafting 12th overall with their own pick, but 21st overall with Nashville's.

Calgary agreed to give up 14th overall to draft 21st overall if Buffalo agreed to give Calgary their 2nd round draft pick at 42nd overall. What did the Sabres care? They were moving up for the opportunity to make 2 Top 15 picks and were already draft before pick #50 anyway with Calgary's pick. The Flames would end up picking Seiloff at 42 while the Sabres picked Jake McCabe at 50. Woof.

With the 12th overall pick the Sabres drafted Grigorenko who turned out to be a bust, and with 14th overall they drafted girgensons, who is also busting but who's managed to play 420 games in the NHL.

The following players were drafted between #14 and #21 with their career points in brackets:

Cody Ceci (118)
Tom Wilson (144)
Tomas Hertl (244)
Teuvo Teravainen (226)
Andrei Vasilevskiy (208 gp .919 sv%)
Scott Laughton (79)

Jankowski (57)

They are already missing a 2nd this year....

Anyone able to help this team during it's current winning window should already be drafted and in the system by now.

Like I have been saying for years, this is a years old problem that will always be a problem until it is fundamentally addressed.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think we had the best regular season in a long time, led 3/5 playoff games with 3 minutes to go so we shouldn’t be targeting our top line center or one of the best penalty killers in the NHL.

We should also at least wait until the game ends to run people out of down.

At the start of the season if you said 3rd in the Pacific with a 1st round loss I would have said I would be disappointed but it shows progress in the right direction.

It’s only because the regular season was so good that this is so frustrating.

I don't think it matters if you lose 4-0 or 4-3, if your team fights hard and leaves everything out on the ice. The fact they had a great regular season and played like this is just bad on so many levels. The fact that 2 of the last playoff series this franchise have been in have been complete white washes, with these players, is also bad on so many levels.

As a fan, if you aren't willing to address the problems - in my mind Monahan, Brodie, who were negative assets the entire series. Then what are you supposed to do? Soft, ineffective play from 2 big pieces of your puzzle against decent opposition, absolutely killed this team this year, so what point is there in giving these guys another kick at the can for a third try?

Square peg, round role is not the tactic to take here when your Norris contending defenceman is nearing the end of the road with each wasted season

[Saqe]

This has probably been brought up already but going after Duchene should be a priority. It's going to put the team in cap hell but the window is open now.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Saqe

This has probably been brought up already but going after Duchene should be a priority. It's going to put the team in cap hell but the window is open now.

Is the window actually open though?

This is a team of paper tigers - can win against the terrible teams, play OK against the playoff teams in early-mid season, but after all-star break when teams change gears, the Flames stall out as they don't have another gear.

I guess if you enjoy being regular season champs, sure the window is open, but this core is a bunch of pussies and will never win in the playoffs.

1 freaking road win in the playoffs in FOUR series. These guys will run and hide every time the going gets tough.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Derek Wills says he's positive Monahan was not injured this year.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Derek Wills says he's positive Monahan was not injured this year.

Send him down the yellow brick road then.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

Derek Wills says he's positive Monahan was not injured this year.

I don't think he's going to have that excuse this season. He just wasn't good for the last few months and that's something the organization has to get to the bottom of as this cannot be an annual thing with him. He's right in his prime years so the team has to ask if they can win a cup with him as your first line center. I believe the answer is a firm no.

[kukkudo]

I'm still going with Monahan moved at the draft. They trade for another Center.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

After a full weekend to disconnect and remove the emotion from the disappointment, coming back into this thread and reading some of the broad brush statements and overall writing this team and it's key players off has become even more embarrassing to read.

Most of it is driven by unrealistic expectations of how good this team should have been in previous years, and grumpy old timers like myself who are just chomping to add to the pity party list of 30 years of "failure".

Changes are needed to this team, and they would have been even if we'd won this series. The nice thing is, clearly the GM was already on that page, and you can tell by some of the moves he tried to make over the last 12 months but wasn't able to (yes, it will be on him to find ways to do it).

But, the overall sentiment that this group has proven they can't win is such garbage. They haven't proven themselves to be losers yet, or winners though, they are still unproven, although I'd say trending very much in the right direction. Which is ok given they are young. 6 years ago, this was the organization in the NHL with the worst situation in regards to assets. In that time they've made the playoffs 3 times, won one playoff round as an underdog and won the regular season point total in the west. After this year, yes, you can also add to that list drastically under performed and caved to the pressure as a favorite in the first round. It's terribly disappointing. But the narrative that this young group has now proven they can't do it and complete wholesale changes are needed is a good 2 to 3 seasons premature and is a very painful overaction to one data point (with lots or stretches added in by fans to make it seem like there's a pattern).

I'll thank my lucky stars that people running the team aren't as dramatic as the fans on this board and will take measured approaches to helping this team get better in the off season, not tear something to the ground because of one bad playoff series they should have been better in.

[Tyler]

When is garbage bag/talk to the media day?

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Tyler

When is garbage bag/talk to the media day?

Today

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

After a full weekend to disconnect and remove the emotion from the disappointment, coming back into this thread and reading some of the broad brush statements and overall writing this team and it's key players off has become even more embarrassing to read.

Most of it is driven by unrealistic expectations of how good this team should have been in previous years, and grumpy old timers like myself who are just chomping to add to the pity party list of 30 years of "failure".

Changes are needed to this team, and they would have been even if we'd won this series. The nice thing is, clearly the GM was already on that page, and you can tell by some of the moves he tried to make over the last 12 months but wasn't able to (yes, it will be on him to find ways to do it).

But, the overall sentiment that this group has proven they can't win is such garbage. They haven't proven themselves to be losers yet, or winners though, they are still unproven, although I'd say trending very much in the right direction. Which is ok given they are young. 6 years ago, this was the organization in the NHL with the worst situation in regards to assets. In that time they've made the playoffs 3 times, won one playoff round as an underdog and won the regular season point total in the west. After this year, yes, you can also add to that list drastically under performed and caved to the pressure as a favorite in the first round. It's terribly disappointing. But the narrative that this young group has now proven they can't do it and complete wholesale changes are needed is a good 2 to 3 seasons premature and is a very painful overaction to one data point (with lots or stretches added in by fans to make it seem like there's a pattern).

I'll thank my lucky stars that people running the team aren't as dramatic as the fans on this board and will take measured approaches to helping this team get better in the off season, not tear something to the ground because of one bad playoff series they should have been better in.

No one has suggested tearing it to the ground. That’s being dramatic too.

Tearing it to the ground would be trading all of our assets for draft picks and young prospects.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

I'll thank my lucky stars that people running the team aren't as dramatic as the fans on this board and will take measured approaches to helping this team get better in the off season, not tear something to the ground because of one bad playoff series they should have been better in.

IMO this is an overly dramatic take. I don't think there's anything dramatic about fans discussing the top line fading over the last two months and that Monahan for example seems to never be at his best at the end of seasons. I don't think it's overly dramatic to point to the fact that some of the core players in Monahan and Tkachuk aren't very good skaters and looked slow in the playoffs against a faster Avalanche team. Treliving has shown that if he sees an area that he feels needs improvement he strikes while the iron is hot. Does anyone here really think that he's sitting in his office thinking that things are great and another year is just what the team needs? I don't think he operates that way he's probably already getting a head start on looking at how to improve the team and that could involve some popular players being shipped out. The playoffs may have sucked but the offseason should be fun.

[Erick Estrada]

Francis doing his best job at fear mongering today saying don't expect Tkachuk to sign more than a 5 year deal because that he wants to go back to the US as does Gaudreau. Not sure where he's got that information but I tend to feel this is just his opinion which is wrong more than not.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

After a full weekend to disconnect and remove the emotion from the disappointment, coming back into this thread and reading some of the broad brush statements and overall writing this team and it's key players off has become even more embarrassing to read.

Most of it is driven by unrealistic expectations of how good this team should have been in previous years, and grumpy old timers like myself who are just chomping to add to the pity party list of 30 years of "failure".

Changes are needed to this team, and they would have been even if we'd won this series. The nice thing is, clearly the GM was already on that page, and you can tell by some of the moves he tried to make over the last 12 months but wasn't able to (yes, it will be on him to find ways to do it).

But, the overall sentiment that this group has proven they can't win is such garbage. They haven't proven themselves to be losers yet, or winners though, they are still unproven, although I'd say trending very much in the right direction. Which is ok given they are young. 6 years ago, this was the organization in the NHL with the worst situation in regards to assets. In that time they've made the playoffs 3 times, won one playoff round as an underdog and won the regular season point total in the west. After this year, yes, you can also add to that list drastically under performed and caved to the pressure as a favorite in the first round. It's terribly disappointing. But the narrative that this young group has now proven they can't do it and complete wholesale changes are needed is a good 2 to 3 seasons premature and is a very painful overaction to one data point (with lots or stretches added in by fans to make it seem like there's a pattern).

I'll thank my lucky stars that people running the team aren't as dramatic as the fans on this board and will take measured approaches to helping this team get better in the off season, not tear something to the ground because of one bad playoff series they should have been better in.

Well there are changes coming, whether you or I like it or not. And sorry but this groups core was no where close to being good enough that you bring them back unfettered, because the majority of the problem was with core guys.

Its merely deciding what those changes are, and how deep they go. Either way though, they are coming.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think he's going to have that excuse this season. He just wasn't good for the last few months and that's something the organization has to get to the bottom of as this cannot be an annual thing with him. He's right in his prime years so the team has to ask if they can win a cup with him as your first line center. I believe the answer is a firm no.

I wonder if we have the Carter/Richards situation here with JG/Monahan. Monahan hasn't really developed his game since the beginning. We (remember Darryl Sutter gushing about him?) thought we had a Jonathan Toews (the good version) on our hands. Instead, not so much.
I am really curious about what happens this off-season...

[Vinny01]

I highly doubt we see the turnover people are clamoring for here.

Do the Flames trade Monahan or try and work with him to help make him better? He had 82pts and his first season of over ppg. He was bad down the stretch and into the playoffs
But I think moving him now is a mistake.

I will need to hear Treliving talk first before putting in my final judgment but I would be shocked to see a massive blockbuster this summer

[keenan87]

nevermind. answered above.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Francis doing his best job at fear mongering today saying don't expect Tkachuk to sign more than a 5 year deal because that he wants to go back to the US as does Gaudreau. Not sure where he's got that information but I tend to feel this is just his opinion which is wrong more than not.

Agree about Francis throwing darts, but I wouldn't be upset with a 5 year deal for Tkachuk. I've said before that I think these automatic 8 year deals are bad for teams, especially in the case of RFAs.

[Harry Lime]

Any deal for Tkachuk will have to be staggered for term with other core pieces. If you have 2 or more core pieces up for contract renewal at the same time, you are setting an artificial deadline for a rebuild.