[News Roundup] Garbage bag day: Monahan had 4 surgeries!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Treliving should have his plan pretty much done by now. There was plenty of time between when the season ended for the Flames, and when they eventually played their last game.

Here is the thing I don't get: people keep going on about what Treliving "should" know or "should" do, and they talk about his schedule and season-end agenda like it was typed and distributed to the fanbase. We don't even know all of the criteria that he is using to make this decision—do we know any of them? as Jiri noted, we don't know anything about his plan for succession—if there is one.

So, in the absence of this sort of information, I would suggest that it is presumptuous and naive to talk about what Treliving should know or do today.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Treliving should have his plan pretty much done by now. There was plenty of time between when the season ended for the Flames, and when they eventually played their last game.

Even if this weren't completely subjective and devoid of the fact it doesn't allow for post season interviews etc...

Your issue doesn't seem to be frustration that a decision hasn't been made (for all we know it has) but that it hasn't been announced yet so you're aware of it.

I have a feeling that last part is pretty low on the priority list.

Since we have no way of knowing what the timeline is or what decision have or haven't been made, it seems a little disingenuous to start getting upset about it and drawing conclusions from what a lack of an announcement on April 15 might mean or how it reflects on management.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ guys, that was a joke, about how much time he had between when the team checked out and when the season was technically completed.

Time, and far too much of it, to think about next year because this year was done

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Angelino

I indicated earlier that it sheds some light on his ability. I still believe that is correct. I see no reason for Gulutzan to be employed at this point. If he is being prevented to remove Gulutzan by other forces (Burke, Owners, Etc) then there are far bigger issues with the organization.

One good indicator of his ability, outside of the coaching decision, is that it is nearly his 4th full year as GM and the franchise is irrelevant in terms of cup contention.

The fact that you (or me or anyone else who's a fan) see no reason for GG to still be employed at is irrelevant because as a fan you are missing probably about 90% of the info needed to have an informed opinion on how quickly BT should be making a decision on the coach. This what is getting so frustrating about the dialogue around here. Despite what I was wrote above, I don't think there's anything wrong with you, or me, or anyone forming an opinion on wether we think GG should have been canned by now, it's fun and part of being a fan. But it's when folks start to extrspolate on those opinions (which are not well informed cause they can't be) and start to formulate another opinion (often passionately) which is based on the first opinion which was already a stretch. Each opinion gets less and less educated, but some more and more passionate. Nothing is more annoying than a passionate opinion that's not educated. BTs bad at his job cause in your opinion as a fan with no access to behind the scenes info feels he hasn't fired the coach fast enough? Ridiculous.

Also, your last comment is so telling in just how delusional this board has become. 4th year as GM and we aren't close enough? How close should a scroarched earth rebuild get in 4 years? BT inherited one of the bleakest rosters and prospect pools in the NHL. 4 years ain't a lot.

[dammage79]

FWIW, the Fan said the Flames finished up their management meetings in Banff this week. So the ball should theoretically get rolling soon on some things.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

BTs bad at his job cause in your opinion as a fan with no access to behind the scenes info feels he hasn't fired the coach fast enough? Ridiculous.

Also, your last comment is so telling in just how delusional this board has become. 4th year as GM and we aren't close enough? How close should a scroarched earth rebuild get in 4 years? BT inherited one of the bleakest rosters and prospect pools in the NHL. 4 years ain't a lot.

Being bad or good is subjective. The facts are he has had 4 years in charge and I don’t really see improvement in the outlook of the franchise, just continued futility. Incremental improvement over the 4 years even if somewhat small would be welcomed.

If you’re happy with the state of the franchise that’s great! I’m just tired of watching 1st round exits and/or other teams in the playoffs year in and year out.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Angelino

Being bad or good is subjective. The facts are he has had 4 years in charge and I don’t really see improvement in the outlook of the franchise, just continued futility. Incremental improvement over the 4 years even if somewhat small would be welcomed.

If you’re happy with the state of the franchise that’s great! I’m just tired of watching 1st round exits and/or other teams in the playoffs year in and year out.

So your opinion on why you aren't happy with the GM in this post, far more reasonable IMO, than your last. While I don't agree with you entirely, big difference in you saying you aren't seeing enough progress versus your previous stated expectations of cup contention in the last post.

As for am I content with the state of the franchise, depends on the context. Dissapointed in this year thought they could have been better. But if I step back on BTs tenure as a whole, I actually think they are further ahead than I expected even with a few Miss steps including the coach in question and Brower. If I go back over the last decade, less satisfied with the state, but feel it's turned around more of late.

And there are a lot of up and down franchises right now, especially the young ones, in then out when it comes to the playoffs, and less consistent ones.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Treliving should have his plan pretty much done by now. There was plenty of time between when the season ended for the Flames, and when they eventually played their last game.

I'm sorry I disagree entirely. I don't think you can fully develop a plan until you get some distance from the emotions of a terrible regular season.

[Machiavelli]

Should have been fired before the New Year. Timeframe after the season's over doesn't matter one bit

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm sorry I disagree entirely. I don't think you can fully develop a plan until you get some distance from the emotions of a terrible regular season.

Ref Post 503. It was a joke.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

So your opinion on why you aren't happy with the GM in this post, far more reasonable IMO, than your last. While I don't agree with you entirely, big difference in you saying you aren't seeing enough progress versus your previous stated expectations of cup contention in the last post.

As for am I content with the state of the franchise, depends on the context. Dissapointed in this year thought they could have been better. But if I step back on BTs tenure as a whole, I actually think they are further ahead than I expected even with a few Miss steps including the coach in question and Brower. If I go back over the last decade, less satisfied with the state, but feel it's turned around more of late.

And there are a lot of up and down franchises right now, especially the young ones, in then out when it comes to the playoffs, and less consistent ones.

I am glad you are content with the state of the franchise. I am not.

Hoping for more than playoff misses or being 1st round fodder. I don’t expect much will change however.

[Machiavelli]

*should add obviously unless they have a replacement that needs to be signed now

[Jiri Hrdina]

I guess you have to ask if 4 years is enough time for the GM to establish a new direction. I don't think it is. I would like to see this organization give a GM more time to get things righted long-term.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I guess you have to ask if 4 years is enough time for the GM to establish a new direction. I don't think it is. I would like to see this organization give a GM more time to get things righted long-term.

I don’t think things can be completely righted in 4 years. I do think the franchise can be pushed in the right direction and be incrementally improved within 4 years however.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Angelino

I am glad you are content with the state of the franchise. I am not.

Hoping for more than playoff misses or being 1st round fodder. I don’t expect much will change however.

That's cool, and I'm sure we all want that, but it's also an easy opinion to have. So on year one of BTs tenure you were already saying we should be winning playoff rounds or is that a more recently formed opinion?

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

That's cool, and I'm sure we all want that, but it's also an easy opinion to have. So on year one of BTs tenure you were already saying we should be winning playoff rounds or is that a more recently formed opinion?

I never indicated anything of the such in any of my posts. Incremental improvement over 4 years however small would be great! It would be a good start to make the playoffs each year. Achieve that goal and go from there. That is a pretty fair expectation.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Angelino

I don’t think things can be completely righted in 4 years. I do think the franchise can be pushed in the right direction and be incrementally improved within 4 years however.

You don't think the team has improved at all in four years?

I quite firmly disagree with that.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I guess you have to ask if 4 years is enough time for the GM to establish a new direction. I don't think it is. I would like to see this organization give a GM more time to get things righted long-term.

What are you waiting to see? This is exactly what Nik was getting at previously. What are the flames really holding onto here? The season Tre took the job the Flames finished with 35 wins. This year they finished with 37 wins and no picks until Round 4. What kind of stamp is he putting on this franchise?

In year 6 does he institute a Winnipeg Jets style hold onto draft picks regardless of position in the standings mindset?

His tenure is starting to look remarkably similar to that of his predecessors.

It didn't start out that way, moving out guys for picks, giving young guys big opportunity, but it's certainly morphed into the trade picks for veteran players mindset that has robbed this organization of the ability to compete.

I used to be real big on Tre, now, I just see him as the same suit trying the same strategy and once again failing to implement much of anything.

If the Calgary and Detroit stay where they are with draft picks this year, the red wings will have drafted more times in the last 2 drafts than the Flames have in the last 3.

Who's going to be a contender sooner?

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You don't think the team has improved at all in four years?

I quite firmly disagree with that.

I judge a team by the performance on the ice. Calgary isn’t in the playoffs. I think the corsi numbers improved however.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Angelino

I never indicated anything of the such in any of my posts. Incremental improvement over 4 years however small would be great! It would be a good start to make the playoffs each year. Achieve that goal and go from there. That is a pretty fair expectation.

Agreed, my question is when do you believe was fair for consistent playoff appearances to start for BT given what he had when started, right away, last year, this year?

You've gone from him needing to have built a contender by now to incremental improvements with consistent playoff appearances being your bench mark of success for him during the course of this convo, so I'm just not clear how badly he's crapped the bed in your eyes.