Maybe B&W just told a crappy story and Johnson needs to be granted some leeway based on the poor source material.
What poor source material? The Force Awakens has a 93% approval on rotten tomatoes, and by all accounts is pretty widely loved.
He was given artistic freedom over a franchise that was lined up great for him and came out with (what I and over 50% of people) consider to be a bad movie. I don't know why you need to try and shoehorn comparisons.
If it's a case of overzealous fans hating on their long established fandom, why was The Force Awakens so universally well-received? It's because it was a good story.
What poor source material? The Force Awakens has a 93% approval on rotten tomatoes, and by all accounts is pretty widely loved.
He was given artistic freedom over a franchise that was lined up great for him and came out with (what I and over 50% of people) consider to be a bad movie. I don't know why you need to try and shoehorn comparisons.
If it's a case of overzealous fans hating on their long established fandom, why was The Force Awakens so universally well-received? It's because it was a good story.
You're the one that mentioned the GoT source material. I was literally just showing you how silly it is to say they can't be compared because you like one and not the other. A lot of GoT fans disagree with that. I've read a lot of SW fan criticisms of TLJ and a lot of GoT fan criticisms of the show. They are very similar in terms of how people describe the way Johnson and B&W have handled the source material.
Someone mentioned they'd like to see B&W do SW because of how well they handled GoT. I simply pointed out a lot of people don't feel that way. They'd view it as B&W ruining yet another franchise.
I watched this for the 2nd time. The movie looks great with high quality effects and an attention to detail with some well shot memorable scenes. The story is really bad though. At least half the characters needed to be re-written with 30 minutes cut. So I guess kudos to Rian Johnson the director and screw you to Rian Johnson the writer.
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I took that clip to be mocking all of the people who thought the movie would have been better with all the naked fanboyism of TFA on steroids.
Not sure why people are looking for something to hate. The movie did legitimately start off a little slow and lose track of one of its main characters. But the whole throne room scene, the Luke ending, the Holdo ending, the visuals on Crait, and the Rae ending were all exceptional, more then enough to carry any star wars movie.
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I took that clip to be mocking all of the people who thought the movie would have been better with all the naked fanboyism of TFA on steroids.
Not sure why people are looking for something to hate. The movie did legitimately start off a little slow and lose track of one of its main characters. But the whole throne room scene, the Luke ending, the Holdo ending, the visuals on Crait, and the Rae ending were all exceptional, more then enough to carry any star wars movie.
The story and character development are sub-par. The movie doesn't jive with the pre-existing universe.
A few good looking scenes aren't going to make up for that. It's basically an issue of style over substance.
I don't know how you can take a movie that features a flying space Leia and accuse people of nitpicking...there's was a lot of bad stuff in there.
The story and character development are sub-par. The movie doesn't jive with the pre-existing universe.
A few good looking scenes aren't going to make up for that. It's basically an issue of style over substance.
I don't know how you can take a movie that features a flying space Leia and accuse people of nitpicking...there's was a lot of bad stuff in there.
loosing track of the story and pressing disbelief is a feature of Star Wars not a bug.
V - A Muppet and Ghost team up to train someone to lift space ships with their mind, giant worms in the vacuum of space
VI - A minor diversion to run off and slaughter a bunch of thugs eating up nearly half the run time, teddy bears taking down legions of trained soldiers
I - JarJar Binks / Young Anikin / political procedure as plot, Jesus complex.....
II - 50's diner / Detective ObiWan / random sex vacation in the medow
III - The acting in general, "Annie your breaking my heart". Its actually much much worse than you remember just try to watch it.
VII - the star killer base, kylo temper tantrums.
So somebody flew around in space and survives, that follows.
If it's a case of overzealous fans hating on their long established fandom, why was The Force Awakens so universally well-received? It's because it was a good story.
I think the Force Awakens was so well received because it was essentially a remake of the first series with a bunch of callbacks to nostalgia.
I think the Force Awakens was so well received because it was essentially a remake of the first series with a bunch of callbacks to nostalgia.
I must have said this a thousand times, it certainly was and I for one was okay with that because I understood.
Theres a big time gap and you're trying to bridge the old films with the new. TFA was like a gateway drug.
The issue then is that I accepted that as a fan because I expected them to then use that as a springboard to go somewhere interesting with their new story and narrative....which is not what happened.
I didnt hate TLJ, but I was disappointed.
I would probably describe that entire film as 'treading water.' Not a lot happened and there was little to no real progression of the story.
And it was really long, convoluted and full of characters that really didnt do anything or matter.
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I think the Force Awakens was so well received because it was essentially a remake of the first series with a bunch of callbacks to nostalgia.
And Rogue One? TFA and Rogue One were both embraced by fans.
A lot of people just going the Last Jedi is a bad movie. I find it unfunny and very poorly written. It was obviously trying to be extremely clever with the constant plot twists. For many, those just missed the mark.
And Rogue One? TFA and Rogue One were both embraced by fans.
A lot of people just going the Last Jedi is a bad movie. I find it unfunny and very poorly written. It was obviously trying to be extremely clever with the constant plot twists. For many, those just missed the mark.
I loved Rogue One, it just had that 'Star Wars Feel' to it.
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I loved Rogue One, it just had that 'Star Wars Feel' to it.
agreed, I certainly enjoyed that one more than any of the other new movies. Maybe because I didn't go in with any expectations, but I felt it was extremely well done.
agreed, I certainly enjoyed that one more than any of the other new movies. Maybe because I didn't go in with any expectations, but I felt it was extremely well done.
I'll agree with that, I had no expectations because you know how its going to end but it was just so well done that you're not thinking about that aspect and you're just along for the ride.
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I loved Rogue One, it just had that 'Star Wars Feel' to it.
I loved it because it looked at themes outside of the normal star wars universe.
It would have been easy for them Chirrutt a former jedi injured by order 66, and in the middle of the main battle he could have pulled out a light sabre and fans would have probably accepted it.
Or have a cameo by Han Solo.
As it was the callbacks to the original movie characters were put in to link the movies and because they were cool but not that important.
Except for Vader, he was the reward to die hard fans for coming out and watching a movie that they would have normally pulled apart.
The one type of movie that I miss were the 60's and 70's war movies, the new ones are too loud with too many individual hero's who try to be deep and complex.
This one wasn't the premise was pretty much razor thin, and it worked well, the hero's weren't complex, the villains were simple, and there wasn't a jedi or the force to be seen until 5 minutes from the end.
TLJ just from a story telling/scripting/character standpoint was a mess.
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And Rogue One? TFA and Rogue One were both embraced by fans.
A lot of people just going the Last Jedi is a bad movie. I find it unfunny and very poorly written. It was obviously trying to be extremely clever with the constant plot twists. For many, those just missed the mark.
I feel like Rogue One is the best movie by far out of the new quartet of movies.
Somehow The Force Awakens sits with a higher rating on IMDB though.
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Rogue One was great, they just nailed it. But I really do think it was one of those circumstances where everything came together JUUUUST right to make it good.
Force Awakens was a fun feel good Star Wars movie, TLJ was a train wreck. Still haven't seen Solo, waiting for the Netflix release for that one.
I am guessing IX will be good, but it won't be enough to save this trilogy. RoTS was almost enough to salvage the prequels.. IX won't be able to do the same though.
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Not sure why people are looking for something to hate. The movie did legitimately start off a little slow and lose track of one of its main characters. But the whole throne room scene, the Luke ending, the Holdo ending, the visuals on Crait, and the Rae ending were all exceptional, more then enough to carry any star wars movie.
Yeah, the throne room and Luke-Ren fight scene were great. Almost as good as Darth Maul vs Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon scene in The Phantom Menace. But neither endings and great lightsaber battles could salvage the poor story and missed marks. In my opinion of course.
Why do you think most people went into the movie looking for something to hate? I'm a kid when it comes to Star Wars, I go in looking to love it. I 'hated' The Last Jedi, despite loving pretty much every other Star Wars film (I was a kid during The Phantom Menace).
I am guessing IX will be good, but it won't be enough to save this trilogy. RoTS was almost enough to salvage the prequels.. IX won't be able to do the same though.
RoTS had an easy job. its checklist was mainly 1. kill/scatter the Jedi, 2. put Annie in the robot suit and 3. make Palpatine's face wrinkly. the execution still sucked, but at least going into it you knew there was a clear path.
Episode IX has to somehow re-establish the First Order as a threat worth taking seriously, as well as re-establish interesting arcs for the big 3 good guys:
Rey - needs a challenge that can't be overcome on the first try
Poe - needs to recapture leadership/heroism that was taken away
Finn - needs purpose and love interest resolution
all of this while trying to tell a real Star Wars story, with emphasis on Wars as opposed to "Angsty kid in black with big ships chases a dozen resistance members aboard Millennium Falcon". this is like sleeping in the day of the final exam and having an hour to cram. it could theoretically be pulled off, but the direction/production/writing team is going to have to conjure up something close to miraculous.
Yeah, the throne room and Luke-Ren fight scene were great. Almost as good as Darth Maul vs Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon scene in The Phantom Menace.
if you want to ruin the throne room fight for yourself as well, pay attention to the guards that are not crossing weapons with Kylo/Rey at any given moment. they are flailing around like Star Wars kid, doing their best to look busy while not contributing anything to the battle. it will make you sad.
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if you want to ruin the throne room fight for yourself as well, pay attention to the guards that are not crossing weapons with Kylo/Rey at any given moment. they are flailing around like Star Wars kid, doing their best to look busy while not contributing anything to the battle. it will make you sad.
I thought they were trying to replicate those older Japanese movies where everyone has this flair when it comes to their weapons, you know the guy with the nunchucks spinning them around while staring evilly, or the two sword dude winging them around.
I did kind of chuckle that Rey after about two days of training was a master sword fighter after spending her life using a double handed stick. It goes back to the line, the force doesn't work that way, it doesn't make you an incredible fighter with a lot of technique. you might be stronger or faster, but you don't end up being good at it.
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This all just proves how subjective movies are (and art in general for that matter). TLJ certainly has its flaws, but I enjoyed it. I loved what they did with Luke's story in particular, and it was cool to see a darker version of his character; an older, bitter, beaten-down Jedi who had experienced a lot of trauma, like he's suffering from PTSD.
I've read that fans were pissed off when he threw the lightsaber over his shoulder, but personally I thought that was a great moment. People bitching about how "Luke would never act like that." Really? How do you know? A long time has passed since ROTJ, and clearly some horrible s**t went down in the intervening 30 years that this guy feels directly responsible for, mostly involving his own nephew. For me it made sense that he had taken himself out of the game and just wanted to disappear. In the end he's redeemed when he pulls off the ultimate non-violent Jedi mind trick, allowing the resistance to escape and keep their hope alive. And then that gorgeous shot of him sitting on the rock, looking up at the two suns as he crosses over. That's good stuff...at least to me anyway.
I also liked the majority of scenes between Rey and Kylo, and the lightsaber battle in the throne room was terrific. Wonderful acting from both of them as well, especially Daisy Ridley.
The entire Yoda scene was also great and felt the most like the original trilogy to me. The old-school puppet, John Williams' score, the dialogue, and Hamill's awesome performance. Everything worked beautifully in that scene.
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