[PGT] Oilers 7, Flames 4 -- Nadir

[saillias]

Originally Posted by getbak

After another season opener like this, I like to remind myself of the 2005-06 season. The Flames started the year 1-3-0, losing 6-3, 6-3, and 7-3 in the process. Kipper allowed 18 goals in under 4 games to start that season.

That was the year the Flames won the NW Division and Kipper won the Jennings and Vezina trophies.

Hopefully Elliott is Kipper, because he was the only reason that team did anything.

[V]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Yeah he stunk too. He also completely missed a long range shot by Versteeg that hit the post. Monahan just missed tucking it in after.

Also left a nice rebound that Gaudreau should have scored on if he wasn't busy celebrating.

Allowing over 40 shots to a bad team should be evidence enough that the Oilers are going to be terrible this year. Talbot doesn't seem good enough to help them out.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by V

Also left a nice rebound that Gaudreau should have scored on if he wasn't busy celebrating.

Allowing over 40 shots to a bad team should be evidence enough that the Oilers are going to be terrible this year. Talbot doesn't seem good enough to help them out.

Part of the reason they gave up so many shots was Talbot's rebound control.

They will probably be a bad team, and I think the Flames will be as well, but one game is one game, and doesn't tell the story of the season.

[hockey.modern]

So apparently Tkachuk is on the Oilers hit list tomorrow from many of their fans. This is what he did for those wondering:

1. Boarding hit on Kris Russell (can't find video)

2. Slew-foot on Brandon Davidson, injured after the incident: https://streamable.com/74wn

3. Hit on Adam Larsson at the end of the game: https://twitter.com/zjlaing/status/786649365460819968

[AC]

Sounds like Tkachuk is doing his job.

[AcGold]

Yup. The more mad they are to start the game the worse they'll play. Have a feeling this is going to be a dirty game with how the last one went down.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

They are talking on the fan again how this made sense in theory and how the flames actually did this same thing last year under Hartley.

I think this d pairing thing is being blown way out of proportion. If it was game 5 and it was still happening I could understand, not after 1.

I think it's probably because it was questioned even in the preseason, and near unanimously at that. Every single person who has even a passing interest in the Flames knows Brodano should never ever be split up. We saw Bob try it, and it was just as abysmal a failure then as it was last night. I assume Glen watched tape of the Flames and had a better than intimate knowledge of the team, if not before his hire, shortly there-after. That, I think, is why it's blowing up everywhere right now.

[heep223]

Slew foot was dirty. Hit on Larsson was a non-event. Board on Russel looked bad but Russel put himself in a horrible position seemingly on purpose. Definitely in the numbers in a dangerous spot tho.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by heep223

Slew foot was dirty. Hit on Larsson was a non-event. Board on Russel looked bad but Russel put himself in a horrible position seemingly on purpose. Definitely in the numbers in a dangerous spot tho.

That wasn't even a slew foot. As he goes to get around Davidson after the puck you can see Davidson's stick across the front of Tkachuk's body hooking him up. This pulls Tkachuk off balance and yes sends his back leg behind and as he turns to hit Davidson off of him Davidson is off balance because of it, but it wasn't an intentional move as he never kicks Davidson leg out from under him, it's a consequence of being off balance from hooking a guy. I will give them not being happy with the push on the head he gives on the ice but no way that is a slew foot.

Agreed with Larsson hit, it was strong work on the forecheck, I don't care if there is 20 seconds left in a nothing game thats the intensity I want to see from a powerforward.

And agreed Russell put himself in a bad position but it was a veteran move on a rookie. A couple points later I don't think Russell was too put out by it.

[robaur]

McDavid is the best player in the world? He's played what.....46 NHL games?

That's so disrespectful to guys like Crosby, Toews, Ovechkin...

You know Ovechkin....the guy who's scored 50 goals for 3 straight years???

Crosby...defending Cup champion, Conne Smyth, World Cup champ, World Cup mvp.....

Kane....defending Art Ross....defending Hart Trophy...

There's a reason why these wonderkids look ridiculously good early in their careers....it's because NHL dmen/goalies/coaches haven't seen them enough to make adjustments to how to play them....once that happens...McDavid is going to have to change and evolve his game....that's the real test...

You think Crosby, Kane, Ovi are the same players that they are today than when they first came into the league when though Crosby's highest point total was in Year 2 of his career???

Crosby is 2x the player he was back then because even after seeing him and the league adjusting to him....he brings it night after night, year after year......that's why he's the best player in the world.

FFS please stop with the Kool-Aid drinking. The best player in the world isn't unseated overnight....it takes a sample size of atleast 3-4 years and a resume of personal and team accolades.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

listening to TSN radio on the way home from work today, and jamie maclennan really didn't sound all that positive about Elliot. Something about how he's never been a #1 goalie and that some random goalies have put together unreal years/stats with Hitchcock as coach, mentioning Leclaire (10 shutout year or something), Mason (calder trophy) as just some other obvious goalies who just did better behind a Hitchcock coached team.

I googled to see how much truth there is to this and found a frigin article/blog about it:
http://nhlnumbers.com/2012/7/17/goal...-ken-hitchcock

They summarized the point using both Elliott and Anderson in TO as examples of goalies who are trying to prove they are #1 goalies, but have shown well only on teams with far better defensive prowess. Something to be said about the hard-ass coaches in the league (hitchcock, sutter, babcock, guy in carolina) who preach defensive and actually hold folks accountable to it.

I don't know anything about this new coach, and being a younger guy, i do my best to not consider him another Eakins wonderkid. But if he can't enforce a defensive system then he won't fare any better than the guy before him.

The flames feel a bit like ottawa of the west. Decent forwards, with few top end skill guys, a mobile offensive d, but absolutely no understanding of how to defend. If the flames don't drastically improve defensively, how the heck do we get a guy like Playfair back here?

I have absolutely zero doubt that the flames are fighting for the division lead by the end of the year if we had Daryl Sutter coaching this roster .

A few comments to reassure you here. For starters, I don't know how Elliott will do for the entire season, but I am betting he provides at least league-average tending, and that's not bad. I think the Flames are now in the top third actually, but league-average - in my opinion - is the bottom-end of my guess.

Someone else posted up stats of goalies playing in St. Louis under Hitchcock in the last few years - before and after - and the list looks pretty translatable to me. Goalies didn't have career years. I forget where that post was, but it had a few goalies and their save percentages before St. Louis, with St. Louis and after St. Louis. They didn't 'shine' in St. Louis, so going from that, we can expect Elliott not to be just a byproduct of their defensive system.

Next up - Why was Hartley fired?

I liked Hartley - I liked him a lot, and felt he may have deserved a shot this year with decent goaltending. However, one thing I didn't like about his system was the way that the defense don't pressure the opposing team in their own zone. Hartley played a fairly passive system that tried to collapse in front of the goalie, and where shot-blocking was important. Let's contrast that with Gulutzan where he wants more pressure on the defensive side (lots of pressure generated on the PK last night, resulting in 2 SHG). Gulutzan doesn't want to give the opposing team an easy zone entry, and he wants to actively put pressure on the team to result in a turnover. Shot blocking is still utilized, but as a 'last resort' rather than a 'go to'.

Now, looking at the Flames' defence, what system do you want to employ?

I personally feel that having a very mobile, puck-moving type of defence, they should be more active and applying pressure. If there were 4 "Engelland types" and only two "Giordano/Brodie" types, then I would think a more passive system works where you focus on positioning more, shot blocking and collapsing in front of the net.

Gulutzan has also been preaching that the forwards return deeper - though I believe Hartley also preached that. Gulutzan is definitely utilizing the stretch-pass as well (I would assume it isn't Gaudreau playing outside the system).

I don't know if his system is going to result in way better defence (I think it will). We just have to wait and see how things play out. I am keeping an open mind about it, and after about 20 games we should know more about what the system looks like, as I imagine by then the players will be executing it more effectively, and some kinks will be worked out (ahem, like defensive pairings).

I am all up for new ideas. Sometimes they work, sometimes they didn't. I am not sure it didn't work, or if the Flames just weren't ready yet last night. 20+ games, and we will know. However, poor defence is one of the main reasons Treliving sacked Hartley, and this system is all about puck-possession apparently, so I would assume Elliott maintains his SV%. Flames have a pretty solid d-core, but just haven't been playing solid team defence.

[Lubicon]

Had an interesting discussion yesterday with one of the hockey dad's on our minor hockey team. He was at the game and his observation is that part of the goalies struggling (they both were not at their best) may be due in part to the new scoreboard and how much light it gives off. The brightness, flashing etc. may have made it difficult for the goalternders to pick up and track the puck. Given how both Elliot and Talbot both seemed slow to react at times I wonder if there is some truth to this.

[Robo]

That wasn't a slewfoot

[spetch]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

Had an interesting discussion yesterday with one of the hockey dad's on our minor hockey team. He was at the game and his observation is that part of the goalies struggling (they both were not at their best) may be due in part to the new scoreboard and how much light it gives off. The brightness, flashing etc. may have made it difficult for the goalternders to pick up and track the puck. Given how both Elliot and Talbot both seemed slow to react at times I wonder if there is some truth to this.

Me and a buddy had this conversation today. It's not just the new scoreboard, but the actual lighting to light up the ice is all LED. I definitely could see that being a bit of a factor the first little while. Will have to see how the season goes to really get that sense though.

[Dan403]

That hit on Larsson was a love tap. He separated the guy from the puck. I see no problem at all.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by spetch

Me and a buddy had this conversation today. It's not just the new scoreboard, but the actual lighting to light up the ice is all LED. I definitely could see that being a bit of a factor the first little while. Will have to see how the season goes to really get that sense though.

This was something covered in the pre-game, The ice at Rogers Place has the highest light levels in all of the NHL.

CHEATERS!!!!

[sun]

Originally Posted by hockey.modern

So apparently Tkachuk is on the Oilers hit list tomorrow from many of their fans. This is what he did for those wondering:

1. Boarding hit on Kris Russell (can't find video)

2. Slew-foot on Brandon Davidson, injured after the incident: https://streamable.com/74wn

3. Hit on Adam Larsson at the end of the game: https://twitter.com/zjlaing/status/786649365460819968

Hit on Russel was pretty bad even though Russel put himself in a bad spot.

Didn't think much of the slew-foot at first, but the fact that he's grinding Davidson's face into the ice afterwards is pretty disgusting and leads me to believe the slew-foot was intentional.

Anyone notice Kassian pulling Tkachuk's hair after? Burrows mentored him well.

Hit on Larsson was nothing.

[AcGold]

The face grinding was bad. There's playing tough then there's embarrassing guys that are physically outmatched. Davidson's got a life to live, no need to risk that over a game, it was pretty out of line. Holding his face down like that is the predecessor to life changing injuries.