People attributing this to some peculiar bigotry or chauvanism of the English might want to consider that the EU is even less popular in France, where only 38 per cent of people have a positive opinion of the EU.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
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Media reaction to the Brexit vote falls into two general categories: (1) earnest, candid attempts to understand what motivated voters to make this choice, even if that means indicting one’s own establishment circles, and (2) petulant, self-serving, simple-minded attacks on disobedient pro-leave voters for being primitive, xenophobic bigots (and stupid to boot), all to evade any reckoning with their own responsibility. Virtually every reaction that falls into the former category emphasizes the profound failures of western establishment factions
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As Chris Hayes warned in his 2012 book Twilight of the Elites, “given both the scope and depth of this distrust [in elite institutions], it’s clear that we’re in the midst of something far grander and more perilous than just a crisis of government or a crisis of capitalism. We are in the midst of a broad and devastating crisis of authority.”
It’s natural – and inevitable – that malignant figures will try to exploit this vacuum of authority. All sorts of demagogues and extremists will try to re-direct mass anger for their own ends. Revolts against corrupt elite institutions can usher in reform and progress, but they can also create a space for the ugliest tribal impulses: xenophobia, authoritarianism, racism, fascism. One sees all of that, both good and bad, manifesting in the anti-establishment movements throughout the U.S., Europe, and the UK: including Brexit. All of this can be invigorating, or promising, or destabilizing, or dangerous: most likely a combination of all that.
The solution is not to subserviently cling to corrupt elite institutions out of fear of the alternatives. It is, instead, to help bury those institutions and their elite mavens and then fight for superior replacements. As Hayes put it in his book, the challenge is “directing the frustration, anger, and alienation we all feel into building a trans-ideological coalition that can actually dislodge the power of the post-meritocratic elite. One that marshals insurrectionist sentiment without succumbing to nihilism and manic, paranoid distrust.”
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wow, I'm so amazed by the conversation here on CP, I guess its a part and parcel of being so UK media heavy in Iceland, the nonsense and fear based campaign of the leave group.
Now to see someone praising Glenn Greenwald, it clearly champions the idiot regressive left and the right who think the EU is something that should fail because "big government" and therefore bad.
The UK just took a giant leap backwards, and they are already regretting it.
We also live in era when people have forgotten that reasonable people can disagree on important issues. Nowadays, you simply determine which side of an issue someone is on, make a moral judgement about their values, and then regard them as either friend or enemy.
You guys in Canada not see the ADs and propaganda by the leave campaign? Their whole game was lies and fear based on immigration and nationalism.
__________________ Allskonar fyrir Aumingja!!
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Now to see someone praising Glenn Greenwald, it clearly champions the idiot regressive left and the right who think the EU is something that should fail because "big government" and therefore bad.
Or maybe it's simply the fact that the EU hasn't noticeably improved the lives of many UK citizens to the point that they're willing to risk the status quo on something uncertain.
Nothing wrong with that, in the past with so many unhappy people you might have had revolution.
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The UK just took a giant leap backwards, and they are already regretting it.
It's been two days. The only people really regretting it are the people who wanted to remain in the first place and as usual, claim to speak for all of the UK and deny that same voice to people who think differently. Besides, what's wrong with the UK being a bigger Iceland?
Last edited by accord1999; 06-25-2016 at 06:05 PM.
Good move by the UK. Biggest issue was free-flowing labour that could immediately apply for welfare including being able to send welfare money back to their home country.
Get away from the leftist EU and do your own thing....short term it will be harder, long term great move.
The fact the EU hasn't helped the lives of the UK citizens has more to do with the globalization than anything else. In fact they have benefited way more by the EU, even with the holding on to the pound. The free movement of citizens of the EU is one of the strongest points of the EU, and even leave has said they would allow those EU citizens to stay, knowing how important this is to the country.
The perfect storm that made the UK leave was fear of immigration (islam) and of course the appeal to nationalist ideals. The right wing in the EU has been gaining power and increasing influence because of this, and its to their own detriment that they leave.
A united EU no matter how flawed is leaps and bounds better than many single nations trying to compete in the global market.
Now to see someone praising Glenn Greenwald, it clearly champions the idiot regressive left and the right who think the EU is something that should fail because "big government" and therefore bad.
I think you should read the article and maybe a couple the ones that are linked to it. Glenn Greenwald is a Pulitzer-prize winner and a really highly respected journalist. He's provocative, sure, but he's absolutely worth reading.
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The UK just took a giant leap backwards, and they are already regretting it.
Which has nothing to do with the point of the article, and is something Greenwald agrees with. Which would be apparent if you read the article.
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You guys in Canada not see the ADs and propaganda by the leave campaign? Their whole game was lies and fear based on immigration and nationalism.
Of course that's part of it. But there are reasons besides bigotry to want to leave the EU. There's a dislike of unaccountable bureaucracies. There are reasons to question the merit of funding welfare states in Greece and other poor EU countries when the poor in Britain live in stagnation and despair. There's a simple distrust of centralized government, especially when it's centralized far away.
Then there's the notion of giving a big FU to the political establishment. When people feel they have nothing to lose, they'll cheerfully tear down the foundations of the status quo. A lot of people in the UK feel they have nothing to lose.
The elites in the West need to figure out how to engage the losers and bring them onside to the new economy. Telling them to keep their dumb racist mouths shut is not working.
Again, read the articles by John Harris I linked to up thread. He has actually been traveling around the UK for the last few months, especially the economically depressed regions. The world looks entirely different in those places than it looks in London.
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
He's a talented guy, but he's the leader in the west of the regressive left.
You clearly have almost no clue at all about who Greenwald is, what he does and why, despite him being one of the very few journalists who has extensively explained those things in public.
Alternatively "regressive left" is some fantasy of yours that doesn't really have much to do with anything in the real world. (Such as Greenwald.)
(And how is he a leader of anything? He's a journalist who writes verbose articles on complicated topics from unpopular angles, runs a marginal newssite and occasionally appears on TV to make comments that are often really unpopular.)
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Originally Posted by Thor
You guys in Canada not see the ADs and propaganda by the leave campaign? Their whole game was lies and fear based on immigration and nationalism.
Agreed.
Greenwalds article actually talks about why the facts didn't matter. You know, beyond "because Brits are dumb racists".
Last edited by Itse; 06-25-2016 at 07:26 PM.
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Decades of uncertainty and political chaos have been unleashed by a generation of voters that barely possesses the digital literacy to use a USB stick correctly. As a result, our Parliament will spend years ignoring the tangible problems of ordinary people while they renegotiate long-held treaties that simply don't need fixing. The vital resources that could deliver opportunity and prosperity for my generation will now be spent grasping for the little negotiating power the U.K. has left. The hope? That these crumbs of power can be used in a desperate battle for rapid agreement on new trade deals.
Google has reported a dramatic increase in searches for Irish passport applications since the Leave result became clear. If the conversations I've had are anything to go by, the next big decision for baby boomers will be how to pay for their pensions when members of my generation pack up their bags to abandon the sinking ship that the U.K. has just become.
The split was clearly along generational lines. The elderly simply don't understand how global the world is now or how the European mindset has supplanted outdated concepts of nationalism.
And the young will now pay the price for the ignorance and xenophobia of their grandparents.
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Oilers give up a pick and a player to take on 5.5 mil."
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Oh I know exactly who he his, he is the definition of the regressive left. Like the young turks, like so many on the left..
Its not a fantasy, its the reality of the left which is perverting colleges and universities by trying to stop free speech if it offends them.
Okay, so I'm filing this under "you pretty much have zero clue about Glenn Greenwald". Not doing much better on the Young Turks either.
As for the "regressive left", it sounds like you have this weird fantasy where everything that's not the right is "the regressive left". As in, pretty much all the same. Because that comment is just so far off the ballpark of making sense.
This might come as a shock to you but "the left" is a lot of different people. They don't have a hive mind, nor do they all agree with everything someone on "the left" thinks or says.
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Also, I think you should re-consider the term "source criticism".
Or just sore Remain voters wanting another vote and lying about how they mistakenly voted for Leave.
UKIP's leader said earlier in the campaign that a 52-48 vote only meant he would push for a second referendum. Seems fair that he should get what he wanted.
