[Rumour] Flames aggressively trying to move up. UPD: Treliving and Kekelainen meeting on floor

[Lanny_McDonald]

There is a line in the sand that you have to draw when making deals. Five players for one or two is a little insane. You're moving up three spots, so don't go crazy. Taking on Hartnell's contract provides a good benefit to the Jackets. Backlund and Hartnell's salary is more than enough compensation for the pick, a 2nd is the kicker that makes it too hard to turn down. All of a sudden Columbus is looking at Brown, Backlund, another player of their choosing, and ditching a $4.75 NMC contract. Good return for them long term.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Yeah, that makes sense… IF you place zero value on the #6 overall pick. That's kind of a large throw-in.

I wouldnt' call 6OA a throw in, but if it takes sacrificing Backlund to turn a Nylander/Brown/Keller into Puljujarvi I think it's worth it.

[Bar-Down]

3OA + Hartnell for 6OA + 2 2nds

It's only a difference of 3 spots and only going from "tier 1" to "tier 2" in the draft. We take on a bad contract AND give up 2 second rounders.

Columbus wants Logan Brown and he'll be right there for them at 6OA.

Calgary gets their guy (Puljujarvi), takes on a bad contract AND gives up two 2nds.

Columbus gets their guy (Brown), rids themselves of a bad contract and NMC AND gains two 2nds.

Seems pretty close to fair value for me.

I could understand giving up a bunch more if our pick was around 9OA/10OA but a difference of three spots isn't that big, especially when Columbus will more than likely get Brown at 6OA.

[Vinny01]

I don't see Columbus wanting Backlund. I think they would want to take back no salary.

The Flames send back picks or prospects to move up and eat the $4.75M Hartnell cap hit.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

The same way we all do.

Cocaine.

Speak for yourself. I'm a highly functioning alcoholic.

[Enoch Root]

^ agree 100% with Bar-Down

[erikk3]

I'd give up every pick we have this year other than the 4th rounder to get Puljlvrjrlrvi and Hartnell



...Probably why I'm not a GM

[IgiTang]

The concern is Kekalainen not interested in drafting Puljarjvi. Fellow countrymen and has seen a lot of him first hand. More than any of us. And he's not going to pick him?

As mentioned earlier, is it possible to consider that Nylander could turn out to be better or just as good as Puljarjvi?

Is it worth giving up so much?

6th and a 2nd and Colborne for Hartnell and 3rd isn't so bad.

Anything more is a bit reckless.

[JiriHrdina]

I don't know that Kekalainen is not interested in him - but rather they are focused on finding a long-term centre. Plus - if they don't like him at #3 they are likely the only team out of 30 that feel that way. I think the gap between whoever the Flames can get at 6 and Puljarjvi is significant.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't know that Kekalainen is not interested in him - but rather they are focused on finding a long-term centre. Plus - if they don't like him at #3 they are likely the only team out of 30 that feel that way. I think the gap between whoever the Flames can get at 6 and Puljarjvi is significant.

Listening to a link earlier of an interview with McKenzie, He was saying he doesn't think Kekalainen is all that interested in either Fin.

[Bar-Down]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

The concern is Kekalainen not interested in drafting Puljarjvi.

As mentioned earlier, is it possible to consider that Nylander could turn out to be better or just as good as Puljarjvi?

It could be seen as a concern. But every other scout and mock draft has him as a top 3 talent.

Maybe Kekalainen (a fellow Finn) has over-analyzed Puljujarvi too much and is second guessing himself, who knows. But I agree, I don't want Calgary to give up a ridiculous amount to move up 3 spots. This Bennett + 6OA talk is lunacy. We're gonna get a stud at 6OA too (Keller is my choice haha ).

People have to remember that the expansion draft has thrown a whole new wrinkle into trade values.

Hartnell before this expansion stuff isn't too bad of a contract/player. But with the added negative value of the NMC/protection list it changes player value dramatically. Adding Hartnell devalues the 3OA and Calgary makes up the difference of value by adding 2 2nd round picks (54 & 56).

Friday can't come soon enough!

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Bar-Down

3OA + Hartnell for 6OA + 2 2nds

We can protect 8 skaters right?

Opportunity cost of hartnell is ability to protect one of backlund or Frolik.

If we expose one of Frolik or backlund, there is what.....30-50% chance they lose the exposed player?

So throwing backland in the trade isn't that much of an incremental loss.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by dustygoon

We can protect 8 skaters right?

Opportunity cost of hartnell is ability to protect one of backlund or Frolik.

If we expose one of Frolik or backlund, there is what.....30-50% chance they lose the exposed player?

So throwing backland in the trade isn't that much of an incremental loss.

7 forwards, 3 defencemen and 1 goalie

or

8 skaters and 1 goalie

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Bennett was part of the big 4 two years ago. Puljujarvi (starting to nail the spelling now so time to acquire him!) is part of the big 3 this year.

They're both top grouping top 5 picks in an NHL draft separated by two years.

I realize comparing draft years can be tough, but why are we so many thinking that Bennett isn't the better asset than Puljujarvi? I'd call them comparable in their draft classes, and Bennett plays center.

Trading Bennett for the 3rd pick is lunacy.

By no means am I an advocate for moving Bennett but if Flames brass feels Puljujarvi will be a better player then it really wouldn't be lunacy to swap Bennett for #3 and Hartnell.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by New Era

There is a line in the sand that you have to draw when making deals. Five players for one or two is a little insane. You're moving up three spots, so don't go crazy. Taking on Hartnell's contract provides a good benefit to the Jackets. Backlund and Hartnell's salary is more than enough compensation for the pick, a 2nd is the kicker that makes it too hard to turn down. All of a sudden Columbus is looking at Brown, Backlund, another player of their choosing, and ditching a $4.75 NMC contract. Good return for them long term.

Yes, a good return and possibly fair, but it isn't going to turn Kekalainen's head. He's made it abundantly clear that only a vast overpayment would make him consider a trade (posted pages back):

Kekalainen told The [Columbus] Dispatch that he’s already had at least two offers that would include the No. 3 pick.
“I’ve had phone calls; I’ve had (other GMs) ask me if we’d move the pick,” Kekalainen said. “And I’ve already had a couple of really good offers. Aggressive offers. Fair offers. But nothing yet that’s made me really consider moving it.”
He also said “it would take an awful lot for us to move out of that pick.”

Columbus are in the driver's seat here. There is nothing forcing them to move down in the draft. It has to be a no-brainer deal for them, and I'm afraid a 2nd rounder, a middle six centre & a meagre amount of cap relief isn't "an awful lot" when you're passing up on one of the top 3 talents in the draft and parting with a veteran top 6 forward who can still produce.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

^ I think you're reading too much into his comments. It's posturing and he's trying to play BT or other GMs through the media, nothing more. If he's expecting a massive overpayment, he's not really interested in moving the pick. However, there has been a lot of smoke here, a hell of a lot more than most year's draft rumors. I think CBJ is in a tough spot with expansion and their ability to sign Jones that they might be forced to do something they otherwise wouldn't. Of course he isn't going to say that, he's going to try to play up his position.

[dying4acup]

Columbus is not in the drivers seat:

Hartnell (and Clarkson, not that it matters because the Flames won't touch him) has an NMC. He has to agree to go to Edmonton or Phoenix.

Hartnell is in Torts black book already. I don't think Torts wants Hartnell on his team.

Hartnell has 3yrs left. Wideman, after 56points, had no value because he had 2yrs left last off season. Wideman might be more valuable than Hartnell League wide.

Expansion makes NMC a HUGE PROBLEM! Will be interesting to see how many (that don't expire in 2017) are actually moved in the next 12 months.

Columbus needs cap space desperately befor 01july. A risk of offer sheet to Jones would be disaster.

Calgary is one of very few teams with use for Hartnell.

For these reasons, a Calgary/Columbus trade works. And Calgary doesn't require a huge add to 6OA+35OA for Hartnell+3OA.

[blender]

Good post, dying4.
Regardless of who is driving, Fair value is fair and there's no way the Flames should have to add more than a second or two or a middle six roster player or a prospect or two to move up (if they are taking Hartnell back).

The Bennett talk is, as many have mentioned, outrageous. Bennett alone should be equal value for 3OA. Not that either team would necessarily do it.

[bigrangy]

Regardless if the #3 pick will actually get traded, if Columbus sees Hartnell as a salary dump, I'd be all over acquiring him if they sent like Hartnell + Rychel for any of the flames' seconds. He'd be a great fit, and I think he's a good character guy.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

Yes, a good return and possibly fair, but it isn't going to turn Kekalainen's head. He's made it abundantly clear that only a vast overpayment would make him consider a trade (posted pages back):



Columbus are in the driver's seat here. There is nothing forcing them to move down in the draft. It has to be a no-brainer deal for them, and I'm afraid a 2nd rounder, a middle six centre & a meagre amount of cap relief isn't "an awful lot" when you're passing up on one of the top 3 talents in the draft and parting with a veteran top 6 forward who can still produce.

You are also conveniently missing the addition of the #6 pick. That is actually A LOT for a team to move back three places in the draft, and then to still come away with the player they want the most. And shedding Hartnell is not mere "meagre cap relief." It is cap relief and the guarantee of a freed protection spot in the expansion draft.