[Rumour] Tallon Actively Shopping 1st Overall Pick in 2014 Draft

[calgARI]

Originally Posted by theoforever

At this moment Brodie is better than Ekblad.
If Ekblad develops in 2 years he should be at Brodie's level and in 3-4 he could be better. There is no guarantee Ekblad becomes better than Brodie, he could but is he going to, nobody knows.

What exactly is any of this based on?

[theoforever]

Originally Posted by calgARI

What exactly is any of this based on?

As a general rule dmen don't come into NHL fully formed. It takes time to become an effective player. We all know that S.Jones is better than Ekblad by more than a little and even he didn't have a better year than Brodie.
If you look back at top dmen picked in past drafts it always takes them a while.
Some are declared busts and traded before they find their game.
To think that a junior dman comes into nHL plays in top pairing and dominates is very far fetched.

[Poe969]

Wow. Just wow. I think Ekblad will turn out to be a different style player than S jones and could be better. Brodie didn't really dominate last year either and he could actually regress next year for all we know. I think most experts would say that Ekblad has more potential than Brodie and would probably value him more than Brodie. The one thing we can agree on is that Ekblad is bigger and most would prefer a bigger guy than a smaller guy on the back end.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So Brodie is untradeable...

Looking at his draft year 2008 enough time for things to settle, out of all the Defensemen drafted he is:

13th in NHL games played
19th in goals scored
16th in pts scored
15th in ppg. ( more than 100 games)

These guys all were 18 in 2008 and are the same age as Brodie is today.


If there was a way to convert Brodie into Ekblad the Flames, who are at least 2 years away from the play offs would be crazy not to do it.

The defenseman in Brodie's draft year that are ahead of him in ppg (as well as all the other categories are:

Erik Karlsson
Alex Pietrangelo
Drew Doughty
Justin Schultz
Tyler Myers
Roman Josi
Vyacheslav Voynov
Patrick Wiercioch
John Carlson
Michael Del Zotto
Jake Gardiner
Jason Demers
Jared Spurgeon
Zach Bogosian


The upside of the best d-man in this draft is significantly higher than Brodie's.

The only reason that Florida would consider the trade is that it will be a year or 2 before Ekblad is better than Brodie. Ekblad might not help the Flames next year at all.... but unless you are counting on them making the playoffs with Brodie.........

It took 2011 #9 pick Dougie Hamilton 3 years to get even with where Brodie is today.... not much chance of Boston trading Hamilton for Brodie now.

Do you think any fan in Minnesota would want them to trade Spurgeon for Brodie? Oh Hell No. Outside of Clagary Brodie does not have the same value around the league. I would say Brodie is only ahead of three guys on that list as far as trade value.

[theoforever]

I never said Ekblad doesn't have more potential than Brodie, he does.
Just that at this moment Ekblad isn't better.

[theoforever]

The experts were saying that Jones is a franchise player.
The same experts are saying that they are not sure that Ekblad is number 1 or 2 guy.

[Derek Sutton]

Is Ekblad just Bouwmeester 2.0? I have not seen him play outside of the WJr's. I've read Shea Weber but that seems a little optimistic.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Wow. Just wow.

Wow?
Just wow?

I'm pretty sure Erik Johnson was supposed to be franchise defenceman... sometimes it works out differently than expected.
The Oilers have a rather long recent history of trading for magic beans... And that has not worked so well for them.

Ekblad might be that franchise guy. Or might not. No wow just wow required. If it was an exact science, it would be pretty easy to be an NHL GM. Even you or I could do it..

[Roof-Daddy]

^^Erik Johnson is really coming into his own, and still just 26 years old.

[Poe969]

I'm pretty sure Doughty was supposed to be a franchise defenseman too, same with Pronger. I guess sometimes I does turn out well. As for jones, you mentioned the oilers and their drafting; they drafted yakapov and he was supposed to be great too...I guess sometimes they're wrong that way too

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm pretty sure Doughty was supposed to be a franchise defenseman too, same with Pronger. I guess sometimes I does turn out well. As for jones, you mentioned the oilers and their drafting; they drafted yakapov and he was supposed to be great too...I guess sometimes they're wrong that way too

Yah, who needs to develop players, just put them in the NHL, what could go wrong? That being said, a forward is a lot less risky then any Dman at #1.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I'm pretty sure Doughty was supposed to be a franchise defenseman too, same with Pronger. I guess sometimes I does turn out well. As for jones, you mentioned the oilers and their drafting; they drafted yakapov and he was supposed to be great too...I guess sometimes they're wrong that way too

Yeah defensemen at the top of the draft are riskier but when they pay off they become game changers. I don't think the Kings win the cup or have a lot of their success without Doughty. Sure Hall's paid off the the Oilers because he's scored a lot of points but it hasn't translated into wins and if they got a franchise defenseman instead (not that there were any available in that draft) they would probably be further ahead in their rebuild.

[Bingo]

I won't get into asset value in a trade of Brodie for the 1st ... but I do think the Flames should tread carefully if thinking of moving Brodie.

I agree he doesn't project to a true top #1 defenseman (Ekblad may not either), but he really has that "element" to his game that I think dominant teams need. He has Rafalski written all over him, that guy behind the main guy that does all the little things right, is a warrior in the playoffs, and ends up with three cup rings

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I won't get into asset value in a trade of Brodie for the 1st ... but I do think the Flames should tread carefully if thinking of moving Brodie.

I agree he doesn't project to a true top #1 defenseman (Ekblad may not either), but he really has that "element" to his game that I think dominant teams need. He has Rafalski written all over him, that guy behind the main guy that does all the little things right, is a warrior in the playoffs, and ends up with three cup rings

I doubt the Flames are considering moving him at all. Seems like the Coyotes coveted good young defensemen so I would thing the last thing Treliving would do is consider trading the franchises best young defenseman. Besides this thread has kind of jumped the shark as the Flames aren't going to move up the the Panthers won't be trading the pick.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I doubt the Flames are considering moving him at all. Seems like the Coyotes coveted good young defensemen so I would thing the last thing Treliving would do is consider trading the franchises best young defenseman. Besides this thread has kind of jumped the shark as the Flames aren't going to move up the the Panthers won't be trading the pick.

Yup. Brodie is not going anywhere. Even on the very remote chance the flames somehow traded up to get Ekblad it would be so they could add him with Brodie for a stronger future top 4 defence.

As far as youngsters for top 4 d in the future what do the flames really have? Brodie and Wotherspoon is about it. Sure a Sieloff or someone else might surprise but it's still not enough. Flames need to add top 4 young prospects not subtract one.

If the flames are subtracting any youngsters with value it's coming from LW.

[Poe969]

Having Ekblad and Brodie moving forward would be better than amazing.

[Hackey]

...

[theoforever]

Well, if we don't get Ekblad we will get a shot at Hanifin next year.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Having Ekblad and Brodie moving forward would be better than amazing.

Better than Monahan and Bennett and Gaudreau? or Monahan and Draisaitl and Gaudreau? or even Monahan and Draisaitl and Gaudreau?

If Edmonton was not picking ahead of the Flames there might be a chance that Ekblad may fall through to 4th If Edmonton ends up picking another Forward with Ekblad on the board it would be beyond all comprehension.

I expect that the Sams and Draisaitl will have a bigger impact over the next 2 years than Ekblad

What team can afford to be out of the playoffs for the next 3 years?

The way the Flames and fan base went over 2013-14 the Flames management have the least pressure on them..... Burke and Treliving will both have their jobs in 2016-17 when Ekblad will be making his impact.

So the Flames giving their #4 and Byron or Granlund or Reinhart or Sieloff or Wootherspoon, or Hankowski or McKnight or Agostino ( list of young guys that have basically turned into 2nd round picks with an extra year or 2 of development) would be a valid option....

Florida gets a young NHL ready player plus a forward at #4 who is likely more NHL ready than Ekblad.

That is the same sort of deal that Edmonton would be offering... don't know that they have a bunch of 2nd round picks read to make the jump to the NHL..... all their young NHL ready guys that they are developing are ex high #1 picks that Florida would take in an instant along with their #3 pick.

As for Ekblad being the second coming of Bouwmeester:

In his 3 year Jr. career so far Ekblad has 35 more playoff games (22pts). In case you don't remember Bouwmeester had 0.

Ekblad has 189 PIM Bouwmeester 112

Ekblad +31 Bouw -35

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Do you think any fan in Minnesota would want them to trade Spurgeon for Brodie? Oh Hell No. Outside of Clagary Brodie does not have the same value around the league. I would say Brodie is only ahead of three guys on that list as far as trade value.

Who cares what their fans think. Would their management trade Spurgeon for Brodie? I think they would.