The New American Politics thread

[CaptainCrunch]

I always thought that Kennedy was heavily over rated as far as his foreign policy went.

the Bay of Pigs disaster was on him, He went to Vienna for a summit with Khrushchev and got his clock cleaned. I think he was fortunate in the Cuban Missile Crisis however it was the one rare time that the American Intelligence Community actually got it right, but to give credit to Kennedy he did stay calm throughout the crisis and show leadership.

There have been arguments made though that if Kennedy had given Khrushchev a bit of wiggle room when he had him cornered we might have seen a significant cooling of the cold war instead it lead to the fall of Khruschev and the rise of a string of hardliners like Brezhnev and Andropov who dialed the cold war to higher levels.

[Burke Salad]

Didnt Carter have a famous speech warning Americans about there over spending and gluttonous apetite for products and lifestyles that could never be achieved? It was way ahead of it's time and made a ton of sense. History should be kinder to Carter if you ask me.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

Didnt Carter have a famous speech warning Americans about there over spending and gluttonous apetite for products and lifestyles that could never be achieved? It was way ahead of it's time and made a ton of sense. History should be kinder to Carter if you ask me.

Obama has always had great speeches, but he will be remembered as a weak, ineffectual president, stained with scandals like the NSA and veterans healthcare. Actions count a lot more than words

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Obama has always had great speeches, but he will be remembered as a weak, ineffectual president, stained with scandals like the NSA and veterans healthcare. Actions count a lot more than words

He plowed (somewhat) universal health care through, and that's an amazing feat given the system he was dealing with. Even if the end product leaves something to be desired, he got it through, a massive accomplishment.

Otherwise I would agree, since then he has been weak including the implementation of the (somewhat) universal health care. The whole NSA thing demonstrates the President is not in control. Pretty scary.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

Didnt Carter have a famous speech warning Americans about there over spending and gluttonous apetite for products and lifestyles that could never be achieved? It was way ahead of it's time and made a ton of sense. History should be kinder to Carter if you ask me.

As a president Carter was a disaster, he was far too trusting of a person.

He flubbed the Iranian Crisis.

He trusted Brezhnev on arms control and Brezhnev not only didn't abide by it, but once he had the measure of the American President he invaded Afghanistan.

The Nato leaders had little respect for Carter. I think that the French President had a very dim view of Carter and said it publically.

The American economy plummeted under Carter with Inflation going through the roof as well as unemployment.

He was really not suited to be the president.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

Obama has always had great speeches, but he will be remembered as a weak, ineffectual president, stained with scandals like the NSA and veterans healthcare. Actions count a lot more than words

He didn't have a good presidency for sure, but he also had probably the worst congress in history whose entire platform was to impede him. We'll see where he gets on his current turn towards climate change.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by nik-

He didn't have a good presidency for sure, but he also had probably the worst congress in history whose entire platform was to impede him. We'll see where he gets on his current turn towards climate change.

I would bet he's leaving that file for the next president.

[nik-]

Maybe to finish it, but he's already started the plan and he has two years left.

I think Obama will be looked at for a terrifying foreign policy, not in a weakness view like many say, but in a horrifying willingness to just bomb the hell out of people on pretty flimsy evidence. He really fired up the assassination engine. Also with being way to optimistic about what he could accomplish and having to deal with some of the harshest veiled racism in a long long time.

Overall, unless he hits a home run in the next two years, not good. We'll see how the affordable health care act turns out and evolves.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Delgar

He plowed (somewhat) universal health care through, and that's an amazing feat given the system he was dealing with. Even if the end product leaves something to be desired, he got it through, a massive accomplishment.

Otherwise I would agree, since then he has been weak including the implementation of the (somewhat) universal health care. The whole NSA thing demonstrates the President is not in control. Pretty scary.

Even with his new system healthcare in the US is still a joke. He tried to much to appease the Republicans, which didn't work at all and only watered down what was a really good healthcare bill, hence his being weak. If he had used the whole "#### the Republicans" attitude he seems to have now he would have been a much more effective president

Still doesn't excuse him from the NSA or VA messes though. Vilifying Edward Snow instead of going after the real issues, publicly declaring the VA a broken system before even being elected and doing nothing about it afterwards. Plus the killing of thousands with drone strikes and a blanket "enemy combatant" brand that gets applied to anyone the White House feels like, he's been pretty much the opposite of everything he campaigned on in 2008

[nik-]

Yeah, if they had decided just to not bother working with the Republicans in the Jan 2009 to 2010 elections time frame, they could have pushed through a legit health care bill, perhaps single payer. Instead, he was idealistic and it screwed them.

And that's the irony, trying to work with others when he had numerical advantage was repaid with an absolute unwillingness to work with him when they had the numerical advantage.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

Didnt Carter have a famous speech warning Americans about there over spending and gluttonous apetite for products and lifestyles that could never be achieved? It was way ahead of it's time and made a ton of sense. History should be kinder to Carter if you ask me.

In a brazen show of arrogance, Ronald Reagan removed the solar panels from the White House roof that Carter had installed.

A lot of the things Carter gets accused of being 'weak' on usually have some sentiment of masculinity attached to them. Like you can only be good president if you wield your authority like a high school prom king.

Like the criticisms of Obama, there's an almost complete amnesia in regards to the obstacles faced by his administration, like the Iranian Revolution happens in each presidential administration and the other presidents all handled it better.

Carter normalized diplomatic relations with China, forged progressive bonds with African nations, helped legitimize the struggle against Apartheid in South Africa and pardoned Vietnam draft dodgers.

He was proven right after the fact on many issues. His contemporaries are, literally, criminals.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Burke Salad

Didnt Carter have a famous speech warning Americans about there over spending and gluttonous apetite for products and lifestyles that could never be achieved? It was way ahead of it's time and made a ton of sense. History should be kinder to Carter if you ask me.

444 days

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

444 days

Yup, that's a long time to be held hostage.

2,996 is also a big number. Reagan planted the seeds to harvest that one.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

To the American friends on the site.

What is your response to this article:

http://business.financialpost.com/20...-stop-pouting/

Be honest as I am very curious as to American reaction.

The article is gone KC.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Yup, that's a long time to be held hostage.

2,996 is also a big number. Reagan planted the seeds to harvest that one.

Honestly, I don't know what 2996 refers to, but I haven't made a single statement about Reagan in this discussion so I'm not sure what is relevant about it.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Honestly, I don't know what 2996 refers to, but I haven't made a single statement about Reagan in this discussion so I'm not sure what is relevant about it.

Well this is kind of a side discussion about where presidents rank.

In comparison to 9/11 dead, Operation Menu, the coup in Chile, the coup in Guatamala ... 50 hostages spending a year and a half in captivity is pretty minor. It's just more embarrassing for the US because it's American lives and more reported.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

The article is gone KC.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/mary-...ada-1404076426

As a Canadian, the attitude and arrogance really angers me.

As an American, it embarrasses me a bit. But that ship sailed a long time ago.

[PIMking]

THe sooner you get over the fact that our politicians are all the same, slimy aholes the better you will feel.

I don't even care anymore

[Coach]

Originally Posted by PIMking

THe sooner you get over the fact that our politicians are all the same, slimy aholes the better you will feel.

I don't even care anymore

Isn't that kind of a problem?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Isn't that kind of a problem?

meh

it is but there isn't a damn thing I, nor the rest of us can do about it. We the people dont run this country. A bunch of rich people run this country.