2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[blender]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

Am I over valuing Stone ? Or is he being undervalued in here. How many wingers bring Selke level defense while also putting up 65-75 points ? I'm not saying I make those trades either, but that would be the cost. If we could some how acquire Stone. Without moving Monahan/Gaudreau we would have the best line in hockey. Gaudreau - Monahan - Stone would be absolutely insane.

Certainly would love him on the Flames, but he hasn't put up 70 points yet in his career, marginal production in the playoffs last year, not sure if any player on the Sens could be considered Selke-level at this point. Good player, but not a game breaker by any stretch.

Although there is a tendency to over-value Flames here, there is an equal tendency to undervalue them especially in the view of most recent events. Gaudreau is a bonafide game-breaker, Monahan is a top-20 center in the world, and I wouldn't trade Tkachuk period. In any deal. He has a lot more left to show IMO.
But Brodie + for Stone? Sure, you bet.

[blender]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

These are not the same stratosphere of player at present. As mentioned, Stone is probably a top 10 - 15 winger in the league right now.

Not comparable players or returns in trade situations at all. No need to get upset about it. Let the discussion move on.

Interesting, because the topic was being discussed on NHL radio this afternoon (comparison of Pacioretty and Stone). I find the afternoon guys generally uninformed and I disagreed, but the consensus seemed to be Pacioretty.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by blender

Interesting, because the topic was being discussed on NHL radio this afternoon (comparison of Pacioretty and Stone). I find the afternoon guys generally uninformed and I disagreed, but the consensus seemed to be Pacioretty.

I'm not sure who was included in that discussion but it sounds just as ill informed as the suggestion on the last page.

Especially when we're specifically talking potential acquisition cost.

Pacioretty will be 30 next year when his contract ends, and looking to cash in big time. I'd want no part of him on his next contract which I think significantly diminishes what teams would be willing to move for him.

Stone is 25, an RFA after this season, and his next contract would include his prime years. He's also a right shot RW and one of the most complete young wingers in the game.


The very fact Pacioretty is widely rumoured to be available and Stone is not (one would think Ottawa would want to keep him to re-build around) should speak volumes to the cost either would garner in a trade.

Stone is widely considered one of the best wingers in the game. Pacioretty is middle of the pack headed toward his back-nine. Can't say what you heard discussed but it sounds entirely off the mark.

[IgiTang]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

I already said what I think Stone is worth.

"Monahan/Gaudreau/Brodie+/Hamilton+/Tkachuk+"

Do you think Patches is worth any of those ? I sure don't. Stone absolutely is. I don't know how much you have seen of Stone, but he is a absolute gem. Probably top 3 winger in the league defensively, who is good for 65-75 points. Who is younger, RFA, and oozes intangibles you want in a player.

Patches can score goals. Other than that he doesn't bring much more. Is older and is a UFA next year.

If you think they would return similar trade value you are just flat out wrong. Would you trade Patches straight across for Gaudreau ? No. That is the type of value Stone has.

Aww $hi#.. totally missed that post. My apologies.

So... You don’t think a package around Backlund(signed at 5.5 for 4-5 years), Brodie and Dube or Mangiapane or Kylington get it done for Stone? I gotta think Ottawa seriously considers it.

And with that said, someone .... (stopped myself and almost had a stroke because I realized how stupid I must sound..)

You’re absolutely right. Although it wouldn’t surprise me if a team seriously overpaid for Patches... but no GM should be paying what they would need to pay for Stone.

Again, I apologize.

[blender]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I'm not sure who was included in that discussion but it sounds just as ill informed as the suggestion on the last page.

Especially when we're specifically talking potential acquisition cost.

Pacioretty will be 30 next year when his contract ends, and looking to cash in big time. I'd want no part of him on his next contract which I think significantly diminishes what teams would be willing to move for him.

Stone is 25, an RFA after this season, and his next contract would include his prime years. He's also a right shot RW and one of the most complete young wingers in the game.

The very fact Pacioretty is widely rumoured to be available and Stone is not (one would think Ottawa would want to keep him to re-build around) should speak volumes to the cost either would garner in a trade.

Stone is widely considered one of the best wingers in the game. Pacioretty is middle of the pack. Can't say what you heard discussed but it sounds entirely off the mark.

I don't disagree with you. The comment was basically "who would you rather have" and the answer was an unequivocal vote for Pacioretty.
It caught my attention for sure. Although, in a vacuum, for a team heading to the playoffs maybe there is a case to be made for Pacioretty.

I get it though. I wouldn't go there. I only mentioned it as a counterpoint to the earlier comment that they aren't even a discussion, yet ironically I heard the topic discussed already today.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by blender

I don't disagree with you. The comment was basically "who would you rather have" and the answer was an unequivocal vote for Pacioretty.

I don't mean this as a slight to you in any way as I have no idea who this was you were listening to... but if it's purely a hypothetical "Who would you rather have Stone or Pacioretty" and paid analysts or media personalities answered Pacioretty... that's madness. I have to think there's some context missing. That's like saying one would rather have James van Riemsdyk over Filip Forsberg. Just a real head-scratcher.

[sureLoss]

Dreger says the senators have a "futures" driven offer for Hoffman involving "pick/prospect". Doesn't interest Ottawa at the moment but may closer to the deadline.

[blender]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I don't mean this as a slight to you in any way as I have no idea who this was you were listening to... but if it's purely a hypothetical "Who would you rather have Stone or Pacioretty" and paid analysts or media personalities answered Pacioretty... that's madness. I have to think there's some context missing. That's like saying one would rather have James van Riemsdyk over Filip Forsberg. Just a real head-scratcher.

I think it was Patrick O'Sullivan to be honest. It caught my ear and had me shaking my head.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Dreger says the senators have a "futures" driven offer for Hoffman involving "pick/prospect". Doesn't interest Ottawa at the moment but may closer to the deadline.

I hope its not us

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I hope its not us

It is most likely the Blues. According to Friedman they are one of the teams interested in Hoffman right now and have Kyrou, Kostin, Thomas, Thompson and Fabbri to offer. Those are potentially all high end prospects and they have organizational depth there.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I hope its not us

We don't have any picks left and all we have are defensive prospects. I would gladly trade one of them but Ottawa doesn't seem like a great fit

[Tinordi]

Hoffman's one of the very few players in the league that can beat a goalie clean from the top of the circle.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I hope its not us

I think time is an issue on the Flames front, so “closer to deadline” likely means we’re not the team.

Without Frolik, our pre-existing depth issues up front are going to become an issue, and fast (in my opinion). If Treliving is looking to stay the course (be a playoff team), the time to act is now...but failing that, and given our schedule this month, a bad or even “50/50” month of January will bury us.

All that being said, and the lack of rumblings regarding Backlund...is it crazy to think that he was/is Treliving’s back-up plan to recoup the picks moved in the Hamonic deal (if a contract can’t be ironed out).

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I think time is an issue on the Flames front, so “closer to deadline” likely means we’re not the team.

Without Frolik, our pre-existing depth issues up front are going to become an issue, and fast (in my opinion). If Treliving is looking to stay the course (be a playoff team), the time to act is now...but failing that, and given our schedule this month, a bad or even “50/50” month of January will bury us.

All that being said, and the lack of rumblings regarding Backlund...is it crazy to think that he was/is Treliving’s back-up plan to recoup the picks moved in the Hamonic deal (if a contract can’t be ironed out).

Things would have to go south badly enough that there is no realistic hope of playoffs for Treliving to do something like that. Too much patience and value put into this group and especially Backlund.

[bubbsy]

I don't know if I want the flames thinking about looking at the hole as 'winger to play with Monahan/Gaudreau'.

We know that player should be able to win pucks back in the corners, be strong enough to get in front of the opposition goalie, have the hands to finish in tight, and ideally have the puck skills to make plays themselves.

Why can't tkatchuk or Bennett be that? Maybe not this year, but I don't think it is unfathomable that they could progryto be able to play that role by next year.

I'm really hoping the flames are only looking at getting another top 9 forward like Frolik. A solid utility guy who can move up or down the line up and ideally has some nastiness to their game.

The lack of offense could be addressed in having some of our offensive dmen actually jumping up in the play more to generate more 5 on 5. Flames used to utilize their d, in fact they had one of, if not the, highest scoring d in the league. Why did we stop??

If the flames aren't going to utilize their offensive dmen then trade them away for high skilled top 3 forwards who can generate their own offence (there's probably just a dozen or 2 in the league btw, ie. Not likely to happen)....

[Poe969]

IMO, the only reason not to trade one of the D soon is because they'll make a big splash at the draft to grab a high pick.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

You don’t think a package around Backlund(signed at 5.5 for 4-5 years), Brodie and Dube or Mangiapane or Kylington get it done for Stone? I gotta think Ottawa seriously considers it.



.

I hadn’t realized that Backlund had signed such a team friendly, low market deal?



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[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by blender

Certainly would love him on the Flames, but he hasn't put up 70 points yet in his career, marginal production in the playoffs last year, not sure if any player on the Sens could be considered Selke-level at this point. Good player, but not a game breaker by any stretch.

Although there is a tendency to over-value Flames here, there is an equal tendency to undervalue them especially in the view of most recent events. Gaudreau is a bonafide game-breaker, Monahan is a top-20 center in the world, and I wouldn't trade Tkachuk period. In any deal. He has a lot more left to show IMO.
But Brodie + for Stone? Sure, you bet.

I'm going off of memory here but the only players on the Flames who have scored 70+ points since Iggy is Johnny and Hudler. What exactly are you expecting? Would Stone not compliment our top line perfectly?

If we can swing a deal round Brodie and Stone you pull the trigger, I agree.

PS Monahan is only a top 20 centre when it comes goal scoring, he lacks many aspects of his game to be true #1 centre in this league.

[Funkhouser]

The only player I would happily trade a Brodie/Hamilton/Bennett for is Brady Tkachuk at the draft (will probably require one of those three plus a good prospect at least)

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I'm going off of memory here but the only players on the Flames who have scored 70+ points since Iggy is Johnny and Hudler. What exactly are you expecting? Would Stone not compliment our top line perfectly?

If we can swing a deal round Brodie and Stone you pull the trigger, I agree.

PS Monahan is only a top 20 centre when it comes goal scoring, he lacks many aspects of his game to be true #1 centre in this league.

Here is a decent read for you regarding Monahan’s overall game

https://flamesnation.ca/2017/11/30/s...mate-1-centre/