2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Monahan is definitely the main piece the Flames should offer. However, I think CBJ is asking for Dube or Mang as well.

The tough thing for the Flames is that Dubois was fantastic last season and Monahan was awful.

I am not really sure I get the notion that Dubois was fantastic last year. He scored 49pts to Monahan’s 48 and had only 18 goals. I think a lot of people remember that elite game he had in the playoffs but do people remember Torts calling him out for his play before that game?

[Bonded]

Yup, I feel Dubois is getting a touch overrated here.

[Rick M.]

I saw Dubois play a few times in junior and he never stood out.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am not really sure I get the notion that Dubois was fantastic last year. He scored 49pts to Monahan’s 48 and had only 18 goals. I think a lot of people remember that elite game he had in the playoffs but do people remember Torts calling him out for his play before that game?

Sure but PLD responded to be calling out. Saw more out of him this playoffs, than Mony has ever done in the playoffs. Also just because Torts called him out and our coach didn’t call out Monahan doesn’t really mean much to me. Those are 2 very different coaches and styles of management towards players.

[SuperMatt18]

I feel like Dube or Mang are too big of adds IMO and I would hesitate to add that big a piece - would be a step back for this roster as they are top 6 forwards themselves.

From an on ice perspective Dubois for Monahan is pretty even. Dubois is better all around but Monahan is the better goal scorer which is important. Monahan also has the better offensive pedigree throughout his career.

Monahan has three years to UFA, Dubois has two more before he’s an RFA again. So that’s the biggest difference that needs to be considered, but Dube or Mangiapane is too big a price to pay for that.

I’d say Monahan+Kylington for Dubois seems pretty fair.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Sure but PLD responded to be calling out. Saw more out of him this playoffs, than Mony has ever done in the playoffs. Also just because Torts called him out and our coach didn’t call out Monahan doesn’t really mean much to me. Those are 2 very different coaches and styles of management towards players.

PLD responded well in the one game against the Leafs. He finished with 10pts in 10 games. Monahan had 8pts in 10 games. I bring up the call out because I think many just focus on that incredible effort where they came from 3-0 down on the backs of a Dubois hat trick. Prior to that he was fairly ineffective in the series. People forget Monahan being one of our only consistent players in the sweep to the Ducks in 17 by scoring a goal in every game or stepping up with 3pts in the huge comeback win to eliminate the Canucks in 15? Dubois has 19pts in 26 playoff games which is a slightly better scoring average than Momahan’s 21pts in 30 games.

Don’t get me wrong I know there is a fairly significant plus that would need to be attached to Monahan to get Dubois. They are fairly comparable players with Monahan having put up better offensive numbers and goal scoring ability while Dubois is a more complete player and better at driving the play.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Sure but PLD responded to be calling out. Saw more out of him this playoffs, than Mony has ever done in the playoffs. Also just because Torts called him out and our coach didn’t call out Monahan doesn’t really mean much to me. Those are 2 very different coaches and styles of management towards players.

Monahan has played 30 playoff games and was 21 points (10g, 11a). Dubois 26 games and 19 points (8g, 11a). Yeah, he had a great game where he got the hattrick, but he only scored 1 goal in 9 games.

I think saying Dubois is a far superior playoff performer is a stretch.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I feel like Dube or Mang are too big of adds IMO and I would hesitate to add that big a piece - would be a step back for this roster as they are top 6 forwards themselves.

From an on ice perspective Dubois for Monahan is pretty even. Dubois is better all around but Monahan is the better goal scorer which is important. Monahan also has the better offensive pedigree throughout his career.

Monahan has three years to UFA, Dubois has two more before he’s an RFA again. So that’s the biggest difference that needs to be considered, but Dube or Mangiapane is too big a price to pay for that.

I’d say Monahan+Kylington for Dubois seems pretty fair.

From a Flames fan standpoint sure, from a CBJ standpoint it isn't enough. Why would they want Kylington when they are loaded on D? He doesn't have that much value right now either. If I am the Jackets I ask for Dube as the add. Maybe BT can convince them to take Mangiapane instead and if the answer is yes you fax that in immediately. PLD is a big strong 1st line C with elite potential written all over him. Those rarely move.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

From a Flames fan standpoint sure, from a CBJ standpoint it isn't enough. Why would they want Kylington when they are loaded on D? He doesn't have that much value right now either. If I am the Jackets I ask for Dube as the add. Maybe BT can convince them to take Mangiapane instead and if the answer is yes you fax that in immediately. PLD is a big strong 1st line C with elite potential written all over him. Those rarely move.

I agree completely. I wouldn’t add Dube but I would add Mangiapane to get this deal done.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Monahan has played 30 playoff games and was 21 points (10g, 11a). Dubois 26 games and 19 points (8g, 11a). Yeah, he had a great game where he got the hattrick, but he only scored 1 goal in 9 games.

I think saying Dubois is a far superior playoff performer is a stretch.

Never said Dubois was a far superior playoff performer. That’s something you just made up to fit your narrative. I said I saw more out of PLD than I have seen out of Money in playoffs. Not sure how anybody could go to bat for mony on his playoff performances? Not great in his own zone and can not drive plays. I like mony as a player but nothing he has shown come playoff time has made me think he is a true number one center when the time matters. Don’t get me wrong Johnny hockey is in the same boat for me. I think the 2 together are good enough to get us into playoffs but I haven’t seen anything that makes me think they can take us deep into playoffs. Hopefully they can prove me wrong this year, but I’m not holding my breath.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

From a Flames fan standpoint sure, from a CBJ standpoint it isn't enough. Why would they want Kylington when they are loaded on D? He doesn't have that much value right now either. If I am the Jackets I ask for Dube as the add. Maybe BT can convince them to take Mangiapane instead and if the answer is yes you fax that in immediately. PLD is a big strong 1st line C with elite potential written all over him. Those rarely move.

Agreed Kylington is not enough.

I still like the thought of including Hanifin and Savard to get this done vs taking another top 6 or potential top 6 forward out of the lineup. Savard is a 30 year old pending UFA vs the 23 year old with 4 years left.

I think if it came down to it I would proceed with the Monahan+Mangipane package. I am not sure Dubois will ever be elite but he has a lot more potential
than Monahan who we may have seen the best of in 2018/19.

Here is potentially a huge blockbuster between the teams

To Columbus: Monahan, Mangipane, Hanifin, Rittich
To Calgary: Dubois, Savard, Korpisalo

Columbus gets 2 top 6 forwards to plug into their group that includes Folgino, Domi, Atkinson, and Bjorkstrand. Hanifin forms a strong young top 3 with Jones and Werenski. Rittich fills in as the 1B for Merzlikens

Calgary gets their new number 1 C. They get a stop gap top 4 defender and an improved backup who could become their Seattle expansion piece.

I feel like the Flames are giving up a ton to value here but I also think Dubois is a solid piece to acquire.

[Heavy Jack]

Man Monahan is criminally underrated... he’s a consists career average 30/30 Center who’s probably been shouldering a bigger role than his true ceiling and could actually become even more effective playing behind a true top 10 Center in the league but that my friends is a luxury and a good amount of teams top Center should probably be 2nd line material.

So you want to include Mangiapane on top of Mony and Hanifin both of which have supremely better numbers and contract situations than Savard and Dubious arguably and Rittich/Korpisalo at this time is truly a wash IMO.

I want more than Dubios and 2 years of Korpisalo/ 1 year of Savard For true core pieces who are still in their prime or pushing towards their prime for years to come in Monahan, Mangiapane and Hanifin.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Never said Dubois was a far superior playoff performer. That’s something you just made up to fit your narrative. I said I saw more out of PLD than I have seen out of Money in playoffs. Not sure how anybody could go to bat for mony on his playoff performances? Not great in his own zone and can not drive plays. I like mony as a player but nothing he has shown come playoff time has made me think he is a true number one center when the time matters. Don’t get me wrong Johnny hockey is in the same boat for me. I think the 2 together are good enough to get us into playoffs but I haven’t seen anything that makes me think they can take us deep into playoffs. Hopefully they can prove me wrong this year, but I’m not holding my breath.

So you forgot when Monahan and the rest of the top line put the team on their back in game 6 against the Canucks in 2015 coming back from 0-3 to win 7-4. Monahan had 3 points in that game.

2017 was a forgettable playoff due to Brian Elliott being the worst goalie on the planet but the Flames played the Ducks very tight that series and Monahan scored in each game.

Dubois had one monumental game against the Centre of the Universe. So yes you saw one great game for Dubois and apparently forgot about past good games for Monahan?

Monahan has struggled the last 2 playoffs no doubt but it seems like it has caused you to forget the past. That and you are fixating on one great game.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Man Monahan is criminally underrated... he’s a consists career average 30/30 Center who’s probably been shouldering a bigger role than his true ceiling and could actually become even more effective playing behind a true top 10 Center in the league but that my friends is a luxury and a good amount of teams top Center should probably be 2nd line material.



So you want to include Mangiapane on top of Mony and Hanifin both of which have supremely better numbers and contract situations than Savard and Dubious arguably and Rittich/Korpisalo at this time is truly a wash IMO.



I want more than Dubios and 2 years of Korpisalo/ 1 year of Savard For true core pieces who are still in their prime or pushing towards their prime for years to come in Monahan, Mangiapane and Hanifin.

I would not include Hanifin. I would be fine with Monahan + for Dubois, with that plus maxed out at Mangiapane. Maybe CBJ adds a pick to level things out: Monahan + Mangiapane for Dubois + 2nd.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Man Monahan is criminally underrated... he’s a consists career average 30/30 Center who’s probably been shouldering a bigger role than his true ceiling and could actually become even more effective playing behind a true top 10 Center in the league but that my friends is a luxury and a good amount of teams top Center should probably be 2nd line material.

So you want to include Mangiapane on top of Mony and Hanifin both of which have supremely better numbers and contract situations than Savard and Dubious arguably and Rittich/Korpisalo at this time is truly a wash IMO.

I want more than Dubios and 2 years of Korpisalo/ 1 year of Savard For true core pieces who are still in their prime or pushing towards their prime for years to come in Monahan, Mangiapane and Hanifin.

I think Korpisalo > Rittich for sure.

I agree that Monahan is being underrated in this discussion. You don’t see stand that Dubois has easily by far the best contract situation here. No idea how you can claim different. He is paid $5M and is then still RFA. Mangipane would be the next best contract situation but to me Mangipane is a 25 goal 50pt upside where Dubois could have ppg potential.

I have been saying for a couple days I think Monahan+Hanifin for Dubois and Savard makes sense. I think the Flames win that deal by also adding nearly 2.1M in cap space. Korpisalo has a cap hit 5k higher than Rittich and is an upgrade in my opinion and is also signed for an extra year. I still feel like the Flames would be okay moving on from Rittich after his poor showing in the bubble (rumors he came in out of shape and not dialed in).

Maybe it is too rich to acquire Dubois because that is likely the only piece that would be with the Flames for more than a season.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So you forgot when Monahan and the rest of the top line put the team on their back in game 6 against the Canucks in 2015 coming back from 0-3 to win 7-4. Monahan had 3 points in that game.

2017 was a forgettable playoff due to Brian Elliott being the worst goalie on the planet but the Flames played the Ducks very tight that series and Monahan scored in each game.

Dubois had one monumental game against the Centre of the Universe. So yes you saw one great game for Dubois and apparently forgot about past good games for Monahan?

Monahan has struggled the last 2 playoffs no doubt but it seems like it has caused you to forget the past. That and you are fixating on one great game.

That was 5 years ago against an aging Canucks team. I would wager any team who made the playoffs that year would have beaten.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would not include Hanifin. I would be fine with Monahan + for Dubois, with that plus maxed out at Mangiapane. Maybe CBJ adds a pick to level things out: Monahan + Mangiapane for Dubois + 2nd.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

I prefer including Hanifin, getting Savard back and retaining Mangipane

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Monahan has struggled the last 2 playoffs no doubt but it seems like it has caused you to forget the past. That and you are fixating on one great game.

He struggled, and yet Monahan was still the Flames points-leader in the 2020 playoffs.


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I prefer including Hanifin, getting Savard back and retaining Mangipane

That also works. But there is no way I am moving all three.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

That was 5 years ago against an aging Canucks team. I would wager any team who made the playoffs that year would have beaten.

Okay pal well Dubois scored his hat trick in a qualifying round against the 8th seeded team who hasn’t won a playoff series since 2004. So he had a monster game in not even real playoffs