You don't know what you are talking about. Tell me what correct length is for a player? Tell me how you land on that number? Tell me what variables impact lie and how you correct it? Then talk to me about tolerances in club manufacturing. Please tell me everything you know about the club fitting process, because so far you've done nothing but support the belief that club fitting is voodoo.
Rick Shiels has a good discussion on this, with a guy who actually does fitting.
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I agree with DoubleK. I used to play with clubs that were too long for me and talked to a number of people about that. In the end I had the shafts of my irons shortened and saw an improvement in my game.
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You don't know what you are talking about. Tell me what correct length is for a player? Tell me how you land on that number? Tell me what variables impact lie and how you correct it? Then talk to me about tolerances in club manufacturing. Please tell me everything you know about the club fitting process, because so far you've done nothing but support the belief that club fitting is voodoo.
Rick Shiels has a good discussion on this, with a guy who actually does fitting.
Greenfield Lakes. Noon, tomorrow. We can discuss in person.
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Biggest adjustment for me was adjusting my lie angle to 1 deg up
Fittings are valuable - but definitely not for anyone - you need to be a consistent golfer with a consistent swing before being fitted IMO
My opinion is that before any golfer plays with anything more than used clubs off Kijiji - they should be spending their thousands on lessons and range cards
I’m in the process of a new set of irons. Any thoughts on the weight? The ones I seem to hit best are notably heavier than the others and I’m just wondering if anyone has an opinion or thoughts on how large a factor that should be?
Heavier in what way? Whole club or just heads? Are they balanced? How do they compare to your driver and fairway woods? I would tend to look for balance throughout your clubs, so if you're swinging heavy in your long clubs, stay the same in your short ones. The most important factor I would consider is how you feel standing over a shot. Are you comfortable with the extra weight? Do you feel like you can manage the club and make the touch shots, or are they like swinging a sledge hammer? For example, I went from old school 588 wedges to the PXG Sugar Daddys (worst name for a club ever) and they are substantially heavier in my hands, but incredibly easy to make the touch shots. I mean, like I'm throwing half and three quarter wedges in to targets with incredible accuracy and distance control which was a weakness with the 588s. I think the weight is consistent with the rest of clubs in the set and that is the most important thing. If the swing weight is consistent you will slowly adapt. The one issue you may want to consider is swing speed and how that translates to ball speed. Heavier may slow you down a tad. How is contact and feel?
I just mean the actual club head is quite a bit heavier than the others I tried out. I kind of like it, and it feels like it drops into place (which is more a mental image than what is actually taking place, I’m sure). The lighter clubs give me more distance, but less dispersion with the heavier clubs (on a sim, so who knows in the real world!).
My current clubs are old though, and these new ones are a huge difference. I think a lot of that is down to loft, but it could be more than that.
They must be cast and more game improvement clubs? Don't take that classification the wrong way, it's just the term used to describe certain types of clubs and the design factors used in them. Usually they are the bigger and heavier heads that help correct mis-hits. There are some really big advantages to clubs like this, especially if you don't play a ton.
The additional weight in the sole will help with launch angle and elevating the ball, if that is a concern. The larger heavier heads are designed to correct mi####s and improve your shot dispersion, again, if that is a concern. Since you've been on the simulator, how do your performance numbers look? With the heavier cavity back, I would suspect a slight decrease in clubhead speed, but an increase in ball speed and an increase in RPM coming off the face. The larger sole is going to help with less energy loss through turf interaction and help create a more rounded swing shape, making your angle attack less steep. This is because of the shift of center of gravity toward the rear of the club and a little more inertia from the added mass. These design benefits will help counteract any potential distance loss from clubhead speed and should be observable in slightly more ball speed and spin. This will also mean higher shots with potentially more ability to stop the ball.
As you approach this and hitting balls in the sim, make sure you understand that not all 7 irons are the same. While the basic setup is almost identical - length and lie - the loft is going to vary dramatically between sets. Traditionally, 7 irons used to be pretty consistent in the 32 degree range, but manufacturers are playing with those specs to give the impression of more distance. For example, Ping offers the G425 irons multiple configurations. What they refer to as the retro spec loft is traditional spread in lofts (7 iron at 32.3 degrees). They also do a power spec loft, where all clubs are de-lofted to decrease spin and increase distance (7 iron is now 28.5 degrees). What they are doing is basically creating a stronger club (de-lofted) to add distance. Instead of hitting a 7 iron, you're hitting a 6 iron (traditionally 28 degrees), but it's still numbered as a 7 iron. Taylormade really started this and the other manufacturers are chasing them in this change, making each configuration proprietary and making comparisons more difficult. Keep this in mind as you look at clubs as this is more voodoo used during "fitting" and kept hidden from the uneducated consumer.
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You pretty much nailed it! I looked back and it seems that while my club speed isn’t always down, it is sometimes, and the ball speed is higher. In some cases (I went though and looked back at shots, so it’s not particularly scientific), my club speed is down ~10%, but ball speed is above where it is with my current setup.
I will say, I initially wanted to reject the game improvement irons, purely on the basis of ego. I do play a lot, but golf is hard enough. It’s interesting that some of the exact issues I have in my swing are as you describe though, and the design of these clubs should at least help with that whereas a set of blades would probably just make me hate my life (on the golf course). My biggest issue, hands down, is club face and not coming through squared up. Unfortunately, I just have to work on that and no club can correct that for me!
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Good on you Slava. Taking ego out of the equation is one of the toughest things for male golfers, and it extends well beyond the choice of clubs. ;-)
With these game improvement clubs, make sure you swing them easy. Because of the change of center of gravity and the natural inertia they build, overswinging will have some really bad effects. You'll generate a ton more spin which will be exaggerated in wind, so any correction the club makes through engineering will be an over-correction because of spin effect. Swing easy and let the club do the work for you. Unlike blades, swinging these things harder is going to have the opposite effect you're looking for.
Some of your concerns will definitely be addressed with the engineering in the new clubs. Give them some range time, ease into them, and you'll get them down fast. Make sure your first couple of range sessions are predominantly hitting off the tee, to build confidence and feel. This will get you back on track the quickest and build the confidence you need in hitting something that is going to look and feel foreign to you. Swing them easy and let the club do the work. Enjoy the new sticks!
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I am gaming a set of blades now. The Wilson Staff Model blades. So, so good. And decent bang for the buck too.
Couple questions for you:
- What is your index?
- Are they a true blade? Do you like them better then a comparable muscle back?
- Have you always played blades?
More and more tour pros are using muscle backs compared to a true blade, I currently have a set of the Sub 70 Muscle Backs and quite enjoy them. I don't see the point really in going to blades when I can move the ball with my MB's and have a touch more forgiveness and distance.
I am currently a 5.9 - I think... I am locked out of Golf Canada at the moment!
I am gaming a set of blades now. The Wilson Staff Model blades. So, so good. And decent bang for the buck too.
I roll blades as well as an index 13 (well the Titleist 716mbs...so maybe there are a more true blade out there). Personally I love them.
A guy was asking me about them the other day, and if they're hard to hit. The reality is my blades run 5iron through to the 58 degree. It's not hard to hit those mid to wedge irons in a blade.
My 4iron and 3iron are T-MBs though.
I've got a forged set of Mizuno JPX 919s 4-pw and there isn't a real difference.
Last edited by Rutuu; 02-22-2022 at 08:21 PM.
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Looks like the wife and I will be going to,Palm Springs/palm desert in may for a week and (at her suggestion) this will be a bit of a golf centric trip. So looking for some recommendations on courses. Not looking for anything high end - but more in the middle of road price wise.
I’d imagine we will rent a vehicle so we are open to driving a bit from PS/PD (not sure yet where we will be staying)
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Couple questions for you:
- What is your index?
- Are they a true blade? Do you like them better then a comparable muscle back?
- Have you always played blades?
More and more tour pros are using muscle backs compared to a true blade, I currently have a set of the Sub 70 Muscle Backs and quite enjoy them. I don't see the point really in going to blades when I can move the ball with my MB's and have a touch more forgiveness and distance.
I am currently a 5.9 - I think... I am locked out of Golf Canada at the moment!
TIA!
A current 9.1.
The Wilson's don't seem to be marketed as a muscle back in any sort of way like some other blades, but I am not an expert in the difference. It's a pure forged blade. The clubs I compared it to did include the Mizuno MBs for instance.
Previously, I played the a circa 2009 set of Taylor Made Tour Preferred irons, but they were a cavity back. But not like a game improvement iron. Still had a relatively thin top line and small offset - both of which really suits my eye much much better. This is part of the reason I went all the way to a blade.
Honestly, I find the "lack of forgiveness" highly overrated. What I do find with game improvement irons is that, yes, on mis-hits the do fly further than the blades, but that doesn't seem to be much of an advantage hitting it further off line.
One thing I feared going to blade was long irons, but I'm finding I'm hitting them better than my previous set.
I'd recommend anyone try them, they're not as scary as you think!
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