2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by traptor

It's not about being mean or fighting or gooning it up.

It's about being hard and punishing to play against.

All those micro plays add up and wear and tear a team.

You want guys who are a bitch to battle against on the boards and infront of the net.
Guys who you hate to get into puck battles with because they're strong .
Guys who might not be goons but they will finish hard clean checks so you can't ever have your head down or go soft into the corners.

Vegas this year for example. They weren't dirty but they were strong. Maybe 1 or 2 guys below 200 lbs.
Alot of guys that are hard on thr puck but have some skill.

Much harder to play against then a soft skill team.

Our team is looking pretty small across the board right now.

Exactly and also just to add, nothing drives me more mental than when people snow/hack/push the front of our net and/or goalie, and then guys just stand around looking at them / not seriously engaging them. The. Absolute. Worst.

The team pre-Sutter definitely didn’t stand up for the goalie on so many occasions. I distinctly recall many instances. Team just generally needs to stand up for each other.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I agree with you. I wonder if Mitch McLain could be an option to play this role? I remember him getting a call up last season or maybe the year before? I don't remember if he's a fighter but I see he was one of the leaders on the Wranglers in PIMs.

I’ve really liked McLain the few times I’ve seen him play. Scorp could say definitively if he’s capable of playing shifts at the NHL level. He strikes me as maybe a bigger Lomberg.

[blankall]

I do think many poster are underestimating the kids here.

Zary, Duehr, Ruzicka, Sharangovich and even undersized Pelletier, are all pretty tenacious and physical players. The Flames are subtracting some older slower players, who may have been larger, and inserting a group of high energy guys that were known for being difficult to play against.

It was great that Vegas had Stone in their lineup to deal with Bennett and his shinanigans. However, Marchessault, at a list 5'9'', was also able to thrive under the same conditions. Vegas didn't win because they had goons. They were just constantly applying pressure no matter the conditions against them. That's the key to winning, not big slow fighters.

In the forward core, Kadri, Mangiapane, Dube, Coleman, Zary, Duehr, Sarangovich, Pelletier and Ruzikca can all be high energy guys that bring jam.

The Flames really need to move away from this identity of focusing too much on truculence, as it doesn't actually win hockey games.

[Saqe]

It's not just defense, it's both. Vegas' fourth line was a menace in the finals and Kolesar took out Tkachuk from the series with that massive hit. I mean it was almost ludicrous how bad Florida's fourth line was, they barely played 5 minutes a night and managed to be a liability even then. And Vegas' fourth line guy took out Florida's best player, massive difference.

[sureLoss]

Mitch Mclain isn't signed to a NHL contract.

He is signed a 2 year AHL deal last summer with the Wranglers.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by blankall

I do think many poster are underestimating the kids here.

Zary, Duehr, Ruzicka, Sharangovich and even undersized Pelletier, are all pretty tenacious and physical players. The Flames are subtracting some older slower players, who may have been larger, and inserting a group of high energy guys that were known for being difficult to play against.

It was great that Vegas had Stone in their lineup to deal with Bennett and his shinanigans. However, Marchessault, at a list 5'9'', was also able to thrive under the same conditions. Vegas didn't win because they had goons. They were just constantly applying pressure no matter the conditions against them. That's the key to winning, not big slow fighters.

In the forward core, Kadri, Mangiapane, Dube, Coleman, Zary, Duehr, Sarangovich, Pelletier and Ruzikca can all be high energy guys that bring jam.

The Flames really need to move away from this identity of focusing too much on truculence, as it doesn't actually win hockey games.

Truculence, as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of team speed and skill, can absolutely win you hockey games. Ask any GM in the league- it’s still a contact sport, and still has 50/50 battles that need winning.

I never said anything about big, slow fighters.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Truculence, as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of team speed and skill, can absolutely win you hockey games. Ask any GM in the league- it’s still a contact sport, and still has 50/50 battles that need winning.

I think signing 2-3 guys like Watson is adding truculence for the sake of it. Fill those spots from within and with guys that can grow with the team. It’s not like the Flames are on the precipice of winning a cup.

[flambers]

Flames drafting this last year shows what they are looking for, the players are tall and have skill.

Gone are the days of heavy 4th liners, which struggle to play a regular shift.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by flambers

Flames drafting this last year shows what they are looking for, the players are tall and have skill.

Gone are the days of heavy 4th liners, which struggle to play a regular shift.

Bell, Ronni, Littler, Morin, Suniyev, Lipinski, and Hurtig all have size and truculence.

Like I said, I agree- enforcers are gone. Players who are big and can play and skate are still here.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Truculence, as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of team speed and skill, can absolutely win you hockey games. Ask any GM in the league- it’s still a contact sport, and still has 50/50 battles that need winning.

I never said anything about big, slow fighters.

The problem is that too many Flames lineups have "focused" on the truculence part. IE they've placed it above icing a lineup that can actually put the puck in the net.

If you look at who the Flames are inserting into the lineup, this isn't a soft group. Even the smaller guys like Coronato and Pelletier have thrown down. These are all guys who are known for engaging in and winning puck battles.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Truculence, as long as it doesn’t come at the expense of team speed and skill, can absolutely win you hockey games. Ask any GM in the league- it’s still a contact sport, and still has 50/50 battles that need winning.

I never said anything about big, slow fighters.

But it’s incredibly rare that it doesn’t come at the expense of speed and skill.

Watson barely exceeded half of Lucic’s production. Sure, he hit a bunch, but he’s another example of a guy who just doesn’t bring much. He also got caved in defensively.

Guys like Dube and Coleman that give you far more while being that much harder to play against despite maybe not hitting as hard are x10 more valuable. You want guys like that in the middle of your roster and guys like Duehr filling in the bottom. Guys like Watson and Lucic are just useless.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But it’s incredibly rare that it doesn’t come at the expense of speed and skill.

Watson barely exceeded half of Lucic’s production. Sure, he hit a bunch, but he’s another example of a guy who just doesn’t bring much. He also got caved in defensively.

Guys like Dube and Coleman that give you far more while being that much harder to play againstlso despite maybe not hitting as hard are x10 more valuable. You want guys like that in the middle of your roster and guys like Duehr filling in the bottom. Guys like Watson and Lucic are just useless.

Watson can skate and kill penalties. We don’t have to even sign anyone, there’s plenty of players we could conceivably get in trades, too.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But it’s incredibly rare that it doesn’t come at the expense of speed and skill.

Watson barely exceeded half of Lucic’s production. Sure, he hit a bunch, but he’s another example of a guy who just doesn’t bring much. He also got caved in defensively.

Guys like Dube and Coleman that give you far more while being that much harder to play against despite maybe not hitting as hard are x10 more valuable. You want guys like that in the middle of your roster and guys like Duehr filling in the bottom. Guys like Watson and Lucic are just useless.

That's what made Chris Simon such a get for the 2004 run.

Scary ... but could play up the roster (then)

[bdubbs]

We're not on the cusp of anything so we don't need to address anything. Fill from within and see if any of our kids have what it takes rather than wasting contract spots and cap space on players who won't be here long term. Don't even consider trading away picks to get these players either. Build from the draft up.

[Sandman]

Maybe Klapka/Pospisil will earn a spot, and Solovyov/Gilbert on D….

[HighLifeMan]

I think fan's place to much emphasis on players who "can" kill penalties. The vast majority of NHL players (specifically forwards) have the ability to kill penalties effectively. It's much more difficult for defensemen.

The primary focus of a bottom of the lineup NHL player should absolutely be five on five hockey. If you can't hold your own and positively impact results consistently in that regard then in my opinion you don't belong as an every day player at the best level. GM's have and always will overrate certain intangibles. You can be an effective role player at 5'10"/180, or 6'4"/225.

[traptor]

It's fine to have a couple smaller guys.

I know it's an arbitrary threshold but looking at guys under 6'0 and 200lbs we have:
Coleman, Dube, Mangiapane, Pelletier and Coronato.


The only player vegas had under 6'0 and 200 lbs was March

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's this.

People focus way to much on big forwards and physical forwards.

It's big and mobile defenses that win you cups over the last 10 years. Guys that can eat up space and eliminate the ice when things tighten up come playoff time.

I disagree.
Ideally you would also have big forwards that can punish the other teams D.

D play alot more then forwards. If you can punish a couple key D men on a team it can completely dismantle them.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Bingo

That's what made Chris Simon such a get for the 2004 run.

Scary ... but could play up the roster (then)

Scary is an understatement.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by traptor

It's fine to have a couple smaller guys.

I know it's an arbitrary threshold but looking at guys under 6'0 and 200lbs we have:
Coleman, Dube, Mangiapane, Pelletier and Coronato.


The only player vegas had under 6'0 and 200 lbs was March



I disagree.
Ideally you would also have big forwards that can punish the other teams D.

D play alot more then forwards. If you can punish a couple key D men on a team it can completely dismantle them.

Feels weird to lump Coleman in that group. He'd tank your average 6'0 - 200 guy no problem.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by DJones

Feels weird to lump Coleman in that group. He'd tank your average 6'0 - 200 guy no problem.

Yeah I wasn't taking play style into consideration. It was an objective size comparison

Coleman is a tough cookie no doubt.

Relative to their sizes he plays much harder than a guy like Rosie for example.