Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[Robbob]

If I was an owner I would consider the 24 million an investment. This is as close as a transfer payment you will see in the NHL. It could potentially net you 2 top 6 forwards at the cost of no assets . If you think this deal can help your team into a playoffs sooner and get closer to a contender (which equals more playoff revenue) it needs to be explored.

[Flash Walken]

Agreed, Robbob.

I think this Dipietro situation has the potential to turn into a blockbuster. One junk asset and a serious asset coming from the team taking Dipietro on, with the Islanders giving up potentially 3 major assets.

The Islanders definitely enjoyed the playoff revenue for this year. If Wang is really entertaining the idea of selling the team, it's an easier sell if you can show 2 or 3 years of playoff revenue.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Parallex

You're not accounting for the replacement cost of Tanguay (the cost of whomever replaces him).

I think the Flames are chock full of wingers that a replacement won't be necessary. Without Tanguay in the lineup, we have:
Cammalleri, Hudler, Baertschi, Glencross and Stempniak that can all play on the top 2 lines. Throw in another guy from the farm to play 3rd line (maybe Horak, Byron or Reinhart) and you have a decent enough top 9.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Agreed, Robbob.

I think this Dipietro situation has the potential to turn into a blockbuster. One junk asset and a serious asset coming from the team taking Dipietro on, with the Islanders giving up potentially 3 major assets.

The Islanders definitely enjoyed the playoff revenue for this year. If Wang is really entertaining the idea of selling the team, it's an easier sell if you can show 2 or 3 years of playoff revenue.

I really don't see a guy like DiPietro moving.

What business owner in their right mind would take a loss of how many millions just for prospects/picks.

Sports is a business, and giving away millions is not good business sense...regardless of how good the return is.

If I were taking that much salary back, I would look at a partial ownership stake in that team over anything else.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Hmmm. Sounds like people want the owners to meddle a little. Interesting.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I really don't see a guy like DiPietro moving.

What business owner in their right mind would take a loss of how many millions just for prospects/picks.

Sports is a business, and giving away millions is not good business sense...regardless of how good the return is.

If I were taking that much salary back, I would look at a partial ownership stake in that team over anything else.

I think there is a difference from being a business and being run like a business. Most franchises are owner play toys/hobbies. They didn't get into the position they are in without being aggressive and taking chances. This kind of move is the definition of risk vs reward. The payoff could be huge and get the team closer to their personal goal of winning and hoisting the cup.

You also need to look at the fact that the Flames will not be spending to the cap and will have a number of entry level contracts coming in which will lower the team salary. The Flames will still sell out and any money spent on taking on this contract would be absorbed in a few years. Even fewer with a playoff appearance.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I think there is a difference from being a business and being run like a business. Most franchises are owner play toys/hobbies. They didn't get into the position they are in without being aggressive and taking chances. This kind of move is the definition of risk vs reward. The payoff could be huge and get the team closer to their personal goal of winning and hoisting the cup.

You also need to look at the fact that the Flames will not be spending to the cap and will have a number of entry level contracts coming in which will lower the team salary. The Flames will still sell out and any money spent on taking on this contract would be absorbed in a few years. Even fewer with a playoff appearance.

Owners will look at say $30mm to buy out DiPietro's contract, look at the Return on Investment they will get there Vs. say a renovation to an arena where they can charge more for ticket prices, merchandising, etc.

From an owner's standpoint, I would struggle to see the upside in taking on that huge a contract purely to get some better players. My money would be better spent elsewhere to make more money.

And while these guy likely got into owning a franchise because of their passion, don't ever be fooled into thinking they don't treat it like a business.

They are wealthy because they are also cheap with their money and only invest in places that will get them a solid return on their cash.

And I just don't see that being the case for bringing on a toxic contract.

Cash is a commodity in the NHL that fans don't consider nearly as much as they should...owning good contracts is one of the most valuable assets a team can have.

[handgroen]

lot of CP content on in that craig button q&a
flames draft watcher got in a question and i think the AC who asked another may be our own anthony cook

[djsFlames]

I'd say yes to doing a DiPietro deal.

If you can get that #15 and Nino in return, it opens up a world of possibilities. Either we could be looking at a future top 6 skater in Nino, and 4 picks that have very high potential. Or we could see 2-3 of those picks turn into a sure Drouin/Barkov/Mackinnon.

This may be the only forseeable way they trade up from 6. They're not going to lure any of them with 22-28 range picks. They should be jumping at this opportunity sooner than later, if the owners are truly willing to go all out, money-wise.

[djsFlames]

*Also, you could trade 15 and 22 or Pitt's for a second pick in the top 10, if you can't manage to move up from 6. Lindholm + Monahan? Could be huge.

[Flash Walken]

Easier to trade into the top 10 than top 3. I'd be more in favour of trying to improve the Flames' chances in the top 10 vs trying for a home run in the top 3.

I hope they find a way to snag a couple of second round picks though, while maintaining a couple of 1sts as well. Move roster players to do it if you have to.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by simmer2

They are wealthy because they are also cheap with their money and only invest in places that will get them a solid return on their cash.

That's not true at all actually. If owners only invested in places that got them a "solid return", more than half of teams in the NHL would not have owners. Owing a hockey team is all about social status, not about what is best for business.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by simmer2

What business owner in their right mind would take a loss of how many millions just for prospects/picks.

Sports is a business, and giving away millions is not good business sense...regardless of how good the return is.

I don't think it as outrageous as some people might think. This is one of the new features of this CBA, something which the owners were heavily involved in. Clearly, some of them pushed for this to implemented while negotiating with the Union.

Of course not every team might feel that way. Not every team can afford to pay millions for certain contracts simply to have more assets. But it's new territory for the NHL, one that I am looking forward to seeing in action. Whether our owners are on board with it, I have no idea. But Feaster did say that they were exploring all aspects, including seeing the position of some of the ''capped'' teams and steps they will have to take to get under. I think if the right situation came along, we will see the Flames be a part of it.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Robbob

If I was an owner I would consider the 24 million an investment. This is as close as a transfer payment you will see in the NHL. It could potentially net you 2 top 6 forwards at the cost of no assets . If you think this deal can help your team into a playoffs sooner and get closer to a contender (which equals more playoff revenue) it needs to be explored.

I agree that the owners can use their money to make trades with cap troubled teams (whether it is an internal cap or the hard NHL cap). I have suggested it a few times myself in this thread.

What I do not agree with is the return.

Tanguay is a real asset. I know a lot of CPers are hammering on him because of the end of last season but the reality is that his value is not dictated by less than 2 months of play. He was in the top 3 in points for the Flames for the last 3 seasons and can still contribute to the success of a team. Tanguay himself has value in the real NHL trade block. I would think he is worth a 2nd round pick, at least, by himself.

DiPietro has massive negative value. His contract is awful and he is as injury prone as they come. The only thing any team can do with him is eat his contact until 2021 or buy him out. Either way the amount of money connected to taking on DiPietro is massive: $24M buyout is ridiculous.

If the Owners are going to pay $24M for the Islanders to get out of the DiPietro contract they are going to want more than a prospect and some minor draft position upgrades.

If I am one of the owners, I would tell Feaster that if he wants to make that trade, he has to tell the Islanders that the deal is something like this:

To Flames
DiPietro
Niederreiter
2013 1st round pick
2014 1st round pick
2014 2nd round pick

To Islanders
Conditional 2014 2nd round pick - If DiPietro is not bought out and plays for the Flames.

Basically it is the Flames paying $24M for Niederreiter, two 1st rounders and a 2nd? Even then I think the Flames owners are overpaying for assets. That is an average of $6M per asset.

[dammage79]

Some Barkov stuff from the Flames website.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=672949

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Some Barkov stuff from the Flames website.

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=672949

I have a feeling we are going to try whatever we can to move up and get this guy.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

I have a feeling we are going to try whatever we can to move up and get this guy.

I won't cry if they do.

[AC]

Originally Posted by handgroen

lot of CP content on in that craig button q&a
flames draft watcher got in a question and i think the AC who asked another may be our own anthony cook

Nope, wasn't me. If it was an intelligent question I'll take credit for it though.

[megatron]

Originally Posted by UKflames

I shall be hunting high and low for an online stream, I doubt the NHL thinks about their fans outside of NA and make it available anywhere official.

I thought TSN streamed it live last year. I moved to Australia this year and want to watch it as well.

[nik-]

It does seem weird that they're profiling a guy who is more than likely to be gone at our current pick. You'd think they'd want to steer clear of hype before the pick is made.