2011 Canadian Election Thread

[old-fart]

I'd argue that some wack jobs in this country just elected Elizabeth May to represent them. Clearly, when it comes to the voting public, they do not always make the "smart" choices (don't even get me started on the wonderbar Hedy Fry).

Having said that, this does kinda stink. I can understand why Harper did it, why he had to do it now before the house comes back, and even why he wanted to pick these three dudes. Doesn't mean I wish there wasn't a different answer though.

[Canuck-Hater]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Does that mean they are not good candidates?

Or are they good candidates but second best in their area?

Or does it mean that it says nothing about the quality or qualifications of the candidate (see: Brosseau/Las Vegas)?

Its all moot. They are unelected. Kind of defeats the whole purpose of democracy no?

[evman150]

Originally Posted by old-fart

I'd argue that some wack jobs in this country just elected Elizabeth May to represent them. Clearly, when it comes to the voting public, they do not always make the "smart" choices (don't even get me started on the wonderbar Hedy Fry).

I happen to know very many people who voted for Elizabeth May, and they are not whackjobs. The only whackjob was the greaseball Lunn who pulled (or had pulled) middle east style tactics to win the previous election.

I find your post very offensive. Makes me feel proud to be from a city whose three ridings are represented by two NDPs and one Green (even though I'm a card carrying Liberal).

[yads]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Agreed.

The best analogy I can think of is...

"that player attempted to make the NHL out of training camp but was determined unacceptable by the coach, so the GM sent him to the AHL which is undemocratic....because he wasnt good enough for the NHL just a couple weeks ago"

I just cant wrap my head around the connection of being rejected as MP somehow precludes one as being acceptable as a Senator, especially when the Senate is made up of many people in the exact same boat to begin with.

That analogy is terrible in light of the fact that the Senate decides on legislation after it has passed through the house of commons. So in theory they oversee what the house does. If we're talking hockey analogies, it would be like taking a terrible coach and promoting him to GM.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by yads

That analogy is terrible in light of the fact that the Senate decides on legislation after it has passed through the house of commons. So in theory they oversee what the house does. If we're talking hockey analogies, it would be like taking a terrible coach and promoting him to GM.

Well, that has also happened before...

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by evman150

I happen to know very many people who voted for Elizabeth May, and they are not whackjobs. The only whackjob was the greaseball Lunn who pulled (or had pulled) middle east style tactics to win the previous election.

I find your post very offensive. Makes me feel proud to be from a city whose three ridings are represented by two NDPs and one Green (even though I'm a card carrying Liberal).

Take all the offense that you want, I'd be pretty embarrassed if Elizabeth May were representing my riding as well. Did you see her acceptance speech? I think halfway through her delirious spectacle, something horrifying dawned on the crowd: "This is what we voted for? Jesus..."

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by evman150

I happen to know very many people who voted for Elizabeth May, and they are not whackjobs. The only whackjob was the greaseball Lunn who pulled (or had pulled) middle east style tactics to win the previous election.

I find your post very offensive. Makes me feel proud to be from a city whose three ridings are represented by two NDPs and one Green (even though I'm a card carrying Liberal).

So, uh... a national party leader spent nearly every single penny of her NATIONAL budget trying to win in ONE riding, ignoring all her candidates and any national exposure. Similarly, she parachuted every volunteer she could get her hands on into that ONE riding to appease her own ego. Her support NATIONALLY went down considerably over the previous election, yet she considered it a big win. Why? Because she, selfishly, won her own riding - that she poured all her money into etc. etc.

Once elected she suggested, completely incorrectly, that she should get a budget and staff similar to other actual national party leaders because she still thinks she's somehow a national party leader.

Every time she opens her mouth and that shrill diatribe spills forth she embarrasses herself, her party, and anyone delusional enough to have voted for her.

But hey, good for your friends. I'm sure they'll be very well represented in Ottawa when they call on their MP and she says "ya, I don't have a budget and you aren't calling about the environment so ya... you're on your own".

[troutman]

Originally Posted by old-fart

I'd argue that some wack jobs in this country just elected Elizabeth May to represent them.

I have an Honours Degree in Political Science. The Green Party currently reflects my values better than any other party.

Try making a political point without a personal attack.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by troutman

I have an Honours Degree in Political Science. The Green Party currently reflects my values better than any other party.

Try making a political point without a personal attack.

I make no commentary on the Green party itself (although it seems like it clings to still being a one issue party - and that one issue seems less and less in the mind of public these days). I do however take issue with Elizabeth May.

As a Green Party supporter, and someone who's opinion I respect as you have consistently provided well thought out arguments in a variety of topics on these boards, do you agree with how she handled this election and her post election commentary?

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Frankly, Slava, I don't believe for a second that your response is anything but partisanship. Especially given your harsh criticisms are always reserved for a single party.

Are the appointments goofy? Yup. Welcome to the Senate of Canada.

For what it's worth, the 15,000 votes Larry Smith got were 15,000 more than Frank Mahovlich got, as one example. At least someone voted for Smith.

You forget, Slava is "undecided."

[Slava]

Originally Posted by zuluking

You forget, Slava is "undecided."

Did you miss the part where I noted how few times I've voted Liberal over the past decade? You might not believe it (and it really doesn't matter), but I was totally undecided. I reserve the right to follow politics very closely, form my own opinions and maybe even remain undecided until the next time I cast my ballot.....whats the big deal with that?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by old-fart

I make no commentary on the Green party itself (although it seems like it clings to still being a one issue party - and that one issue seems less and less in the mind of public these days). I do however take issue with Elizabeth May.

As a Green Party supporter, and someone who's opinion I respect as you have consistently provided well thought out arguments in a variety of topics on these boards, do you agree with how she handled this election and her post election commentary?

That's better. Thank you.

I don't see them as a one issue party. They promote an agenda of fiscal conservatism and social liberalism, along with environmental stewardship.

I am not overly impressed with Elizabeth May. I appreciate the contributions and progress she has made, but for the party to grow, I expect (hope) her leadership will be challenged at the upcoming convention.

[zuluking]

Originally Posted by Slava

Did you miss the part where I noted how few times I've voted Liberal over the past decade? You might not believe it (and it really doesn't matter), but I was totally undecided. I reserve the right to follow politics very closely, form my own opinions and maybe even remain undecided until the next time I cast my ballot.....whats the big deal with that?

Sorry - I should have said that you were undecided between the Libs, NDP and / or Greens.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by troutman

That's better. Thank you.

I don't see them as a one issue party. They promote an agenda of fiscal conservatism and social liberalism, along with environmental stewardship.

I am not overly impressed with Elizabeth May. I appreciate the contributions and progress she has made, but for the party to grow, I expect (hope) her leadership will be challenged at the upcoming convention.

You will note, of course, that my original post you took umbridge with did say "whackjobs that voted for Elizabeth May" not "green party". In any event...

I understand what you say, and I'll confess to not having studied their policy manual indepth, but the sound bites and snippets I do see imply that the environment is the focus of every policy, not just the environmental policies. The fiscal policy is environmentally focused, etc. At least to the outsider. I don't see them ever becoming mainstream if they can't correct that impression, false or otherwise.

Now to wackyjob Liz. What makes you think she'll let her leadership be challenged? She didn't after the last election, despite a party constitution that demands it. Now that she has actually won a seat, what makes you think any challenger would be remotely successful? If she had lost, despite her poorly thought out election strategy (unless you think reducing overall support in favor of one single riding is a wise decision), I think she would have for sure been gone (unless she again circumvented the Green Party constitution). What has she done to try and improve the Green's fundraising mechanism as you know the vote subsidy is gone very soon?

I just see her as more damanging to the party than helpful to it, but now that she actually has a seat she'll be harder to get rid of than a flea on a dog's ass. A shrill flea that spouts off without thinking it seems more often than not.

[troutman]

After winning a seat, May will be more difficult to replace. As you say, I think many people perceive her as more of a liability than an asset. I don't know who could challange her at this point. I think heads would explode at CP if David Suzuki stepped-up.

http://greenparty.ca/node/6118

Time for "greens" to buy memberships and push for change.

[Slava]

I think that May getting elected as a Green Party candidate, and knocking off a cabinet minister to do so was enormous. It's no small feat to beat an incumbent, and I would say even more impressive when you consider the ideological difference between the two parties involved. Full credit to May; it's a big deal. It's arguably as important for the Greens as it was for Deb Grey to win the first Reform seat.

I personally can't get behind the Greens. They have a number of policies which are awesome and I fully support (things like PR, having policy and platform available all the time and no just during a campaign for example). The problem for me comes to points like a moratorium on the oil sands.....it's way to radical, never mind the crippling blow it would be for our nations future.

[old-fart]

Suzuki would definitely raise the national presence of the Green party, but would do nothing to dispel the "one issue party" challenge and would, I believe, exacerbate that problem. I’d also question his political savvy. If we think Crazy Liz opens her mouth without thinking – especially on issues that aren’t specifically environmental in nature – just wait for Suzuki. I’m not sure who the right leader is, but I’d suspect someone more in line with the grassroots, perhaps though someone with a Masters in PoliSci....

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by troutman

I have an Honours Degree in Political Science. The Green Party currently reflects my values better than any other party.

Try making a political point without a personal attack.

To use a metaphor, of all the pitchers in your bullpen, I find it odd that you chose to use your BA in Poli Sci as evidence that you are not a 'whack job.' Public trust in lawyers must be at an all time low!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that May getting elected as a Green Party candidate, and knocking off a cabinet minister to do so was enormous. It's no small feat to beat an incumbent, and I would say even more impressive when you consider the ideological difference between the two parties involved. Full credit to May; it's a big deal. It's arguably as important for the Greens as it was for Deb Grey to win the first Reform seat.

I personally can't get behind the Greens. They have a number of policies which are awesome and I fully support (things like PR, having policy and platform available all the time and no just during a campaign for example). The problem for me comes to points like a moratorium on the oil sands.....it's way to radical, never mind the crippling blow it would be for our nations future.

To me May sacrificed her party for her ego and her need to make history by gaining a seat.

While May did win the seat she soul focused all of her resources on that one riding and the Green Party suffered everywhere else to get that seat.

She lost nearly half of her votes, and dropped a near full half of her popular vote percentage in exchange for a position where you're never going to hear from her in the house of commons.

Instead of running a national campaign, she basically ran as an independent single riding candidate.

I will continue to state that she is the worst possible leader for a fledgling party.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To me May sacrificed her party for her ego and her need to make history by gaining a seat.

While May did win the seat she soul focused all of her resources on that one riding and the Green Party suffered everywhere else to get that seat.

She lost nearly half of her votes, and dropped a near full half of her popular vote percentage in exchange for a position where you're never going to hear from her in the house of commons.

Instead of running a national campaign, she basically ran as an independent single riding candidate.

I will continue to state that she is the worst possible leader for a fledgling party.

I would guess that most of the vote drop is easily explained though. She wasn't invited to the debates, which is a huge blow in terms of credibility for the party. In the east in particular the rise of the NDP probably cost the greens a lot of votes as well.

I don't care for May, but it's still a huge accomplishment. If she's effective she could build that one seat into more next time around....it's no small feat really.