Russia invades Ukraine

[Geraldsh]

There will be generations of prejudice against all Russians after this.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Bastards know they’re untouchable so they’re committing atrocities at will. I hope they get encircled by Ukrainian forces and get a taste of their own medicine.

I mean I hope Ukraine doesn't stoop to the level of revenge atrocities.

But it is NOT an atrocity or crime to annihilate a hostile invading force. I hope that's exactly what Ukraine does with the help of western materiel.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

There will be generations of prejudice against all Russians after this.

Potentially

Croatia is a tourist destination, their War Crimes and Ethnic Cleansing hasn't hurt them.

Hell even Germany is in the in crowd now.

I think if the Russian people and country can resist and replace Putin et al, and move themselves towards a free society that acknowledges past sins their treatment could be different.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Bastards know they’re untouchable so they’re committing atrocities at will. I hope they get encircled by Ukrainian forces and get a taste of their own medicine.

I think that line of thinking is what enabled this type of problem to begin with. Wishing death on someone else for their crimes (manufactured in ones mind through propaganda or real).

Personally I think having them killed would be too easy an out for them. Ideally a long sentence cleaning up the destruction they caused, made to face the families and the pain that they wrought, and then put to a life of servitude undoing and rebuilding for the Ukrainians would be a far more punishing. Then when they have lived a life of regret can they be forgotten.

As for effective deprogramming of the wider brainwashed Russian population, they should be marched before the graves and dead bodies of Ukrainian civilians or put to work burying bodies/rebuilding, just like the Germans civilians were forced to march through the concentration camps of WWII.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Potentially

Croatia is a tourist destination, their War Crimes and Ethnic Cleansing hasn't hurt them.

Hell even Germany is in the in crowd now.

I think if the Russian people and country can resist and replace Putin et al, and move themselves towards a free society that acknowledges past sins there treatment could be different.

Cuz they were deprogrammed and reformed. Massive amounts were spent on reconciliation by the Germans to the Jews and admission/continual education for their crimes.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Cuz they were deprogrammed and reformed. Massive amounts were spent on reconciliation by the Germans to the Jews and admission/continual education for their crimes.

exactly, you missed my last sentence?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Potentially

Croatia is a tourist destination, their War Crimes and Ethnic Cleansing hasn't hurt them.

Hell even Germany is in the in crowd now.

I think if the Russian people and country can resist and replace Putin et al, and move themselves towards a free society that acknowledges past sins their treatment could be different.

I know you have a hard on for attacking the Croatians in the 90s war, but the International criminal court has found no Croatians guilty of crimes (or has overturned guilty verdicts) during that war. Domestic courts in Croatia have found individuals and/or commanders guilty of war crimes, which demonstrates the country has faced it's past and dealt with individuals.

The legality of Croatian operations were not in question in the courts (international and domestic), rather the conduct of individual combatants/commanders. The fact that the conflict was exclusively fought on Croatian and Bosnian territories might tell you that they were not the aggressor in the conflict like Russia clearly is in Ukraine right now.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

I think that line of thinking is what enabled this type of problem to begin with. Wishing death on someone else for their crimes (manufactured in ones mind through propaganda or real).

Personally I think having them killed would be too easy an out for them. Ideally a long sentence cleaning up the destruction they caused, made to face the families and the pain that they wrought, and then put to a life of servitude undoing and rebuilding for the Ukrainians would be a far more punishing. Then when they have lived a life of regret can they be forgotten.

As for effective deprogramming of the wider brainwashed Russian population, they should be marched before the graves and dead bodies of Ukrainian civilians or put to work burying bodies/rebuilding, just like the Germans civilians were forced to march through the concentration camps of WWII.

I should have expanded on my post. I will not shed a tear if any Russians get killed by the defending forces. Also, at this point nothing has been demonstrated that Ukrainians are committing any sort of atrocities on captured Russian soldiers and I hope it stays that way. I absolutely would prefer any scum bag who kills a civilian be tried in court and stuck in a concrete 6x6 for the rest of their miserable existence.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Potentially

Croatia is a tourist destination, their War Crimes and Ethnic Cleansing hasn't hurt them.

Hell even Germany is in the in crowd now.

I think if the Russian people and country can resist and replace Putin et al, and move themselves towards a free society that acknowledges past sins their treatment could be different.

Do you mean Serbian war crimes?

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I read on Reddit (take with a grain of salt, obvs) the translation of that "for the children" thing could also be referencing the belief common among the rank and file Russians that Ukraine has been killing ethnic Russian children in Donbas. This could have been scrawled on there as a revenge message on behalf of the kids this Russian soldier thinks were murdered by Ukrainians.

Now, obviously that changes basically nothing with respect to the atrocity of what the forces are doing, but it does potentially speak to the intent of the Russian soldiers and may mean this message wasn't written statistically sadistically.

"For the children" when translated from Russian means that original could be both "за детей" (a revenge for children, possibly meaning Russian conscripts) or "для детей" (the rocket is launched to bring death to children). Gotta see Russian original to tell what it means. If it was "за детей", it did not mean to kill children

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Pointman

"For the children" when translated from Russian means that original could be both "за детей" (a revenge for children, possibly meaning Russian conscripts) or "для детей" (the rocket is launched to bring death to children). Gotta see Russian original to tell what it means. If it was "за детей", it did not mean to kill children

It was launched at a railyard with women and children and it killed dozens.

It doesn't matter what was written on it.

[FlamesAddiction]

I was reading on another forum the perspective of a Russian from Vladivostok, which is geographically far from the war and the main power centers of Russia. He made it sound like the war is very unpopular in that region to the point that there are hate crimes committed against people who visibly support the war. He posted photos of a few cars displaying the "Z" symbol, with smashed in windows.

Obviously you have to take what people say on the internet with a grain of salt, but I thought it was interesting.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

Do you mean Serbian war crimes?

Nope I mean Croatian.

I'm not sure Serbia is a "Tourist Destination per se.

Croatia is am up and coming Tourist Destination.

Croatia committed War Crimes.

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I know you have a hard on for attacking the Croatians in the 90s war, but the International criminal court has found no Croatians guilty of crimes (or has overturned guilty verdicts) during that war. Domestic courts in Croatia have found individuals and/or commanders guilty of war crimes, which demonstrates the country has faced it's past and dealt with individuals.

The legality of Croatian operations were not in question in the courts (international and domestic), rather the conduct of individual combatants/commanders. The fact that the conflict was exclusively fought on Croatian and Bosnian territories might tell you that they were not the aggressor in the conflict like Russia clearly is in Ukraine right now.

I know what I saw, I know what my comrades saw, I know what the population told me.

If, during war, you purge people from their homes and kill them that is a ####ing War Crime.

That is what Croatia did.

I am sorry you don't like it. I ####ing lived it. Do not ####ing whitewash that history. ####ing own it, make it right (however the #### you do that) and be a better nation. Croatia has yet to do that.

If Russia faces no repercussions, convictions, for the War Crimes they committed in Ukraine, does that mean they go away and didn't happen?

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Nope I mean Croatian.

I'm not sure Serbia is a "Tourist Destination per se.

Croatia is am up and coming Tourist Destination.

Croatia committed War Crimes.



I know what I saw, I know what my comrades saw, I know what the population told me.

If, during war, you purge people from their homes and kill them that is a ####ing War Crime.

That is what Croatia did.

I am sorry you don't like it. I ####ing lived it. Do not ####ing whitewash that history. ####ing own it, make it right (however the #### you do that) and be a better nation. Croatia has yet to do that.

If Russia faces no repercussions, convictions, for the War Crimes they committed in Ukraine, does that mean they go away and didn't happen?

I'm re-posting this link.

It is a really important read.

Russia. Not Putin. Russia, as a country, as a people, need to make amends for this. Nothing Russia ever does can make what they've done right. But they can start to make amends. And that starts by owning that what is occurring is a result of who they are as a nation.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2022/0...ible-pub-86822

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Croatia committed War Crimes.

In international community has judged that Croatia did not commit war crimes. Individuals committed crimes, and they were punished by domestic courts. The overall operations they undertook were legal.

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I know what I saw, I know what my comrades saw, I know what the population told me.

You were the only one there? I was also there. I know what I saw, and I probably know more people there than you do (on all sides) and I know what they've told me. Your and my personal experiences don't mean ####.

[curves2000]

None of these events should be shocking or even surprising. Putin has specifically told us the problem and what his thoughts are on the matter. He doesn't think these people should exist. He is going to continue to do this and way worse. Nothing is earth shattering here, Putin isn't a spineless leader and sanctions won't detour him in the short to medium term.

His tactic of nuclear escalation to deescalate is working to his advantage. We've got the worlds most powerful countries, militaries and economies on the defensive. He is dictating the terms and writing the rules.

It's what we do that matters and how we counterattack this piece of trash that will define us.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I was reading on another forum the perspective of a Russian from Vladivostok, which is geographically far from the war and the main power centers of Russia. He made it sound like the war is very unpopular in that region to the point that there are hate crimes committed against people who visibly support the war. He posted photos of a few cars displaying the "Z" symbol, with smashed in windows.

Obviously you have to take what people say on the internet with a grain of salt, but I thought it was interesting.

It's somewhat obvious that the war is extremely unpopular in Russia. Average Russian gains nothing from it. Nothing at all. The alleged cause of "helping Donbass republics" doesn't quite resonate even if one believes it's true. Sanctions are hitting harder and harder. Even official Russian media reports no successes except for destroying some Ukranian military units or capturing some obscure villages that Russians never heard about. Those successes don't cut it for an average Russian even if one believes all the propaganda. Even the far right "let's go bang some ukranians" type of dudes have nothing to brag about. Forces failed to take Kiev. Hell, they couldn't take Kharkiv. Make no mistake, average Russians hate this war. This war has surely made their lives worse rather than better.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I'm re-posting this link.

It is a really important read.

Russia. Not Putin. Russia, as a country, as a people, need to make amends for this. Nothing Russia ever does can make what they've done right. But they can start to make amends. And that starts by owning that what is occurring is a result of who they are as a nation.

https://carnegieendowment.org/2022/0...ible-pub-86822

I don't disagree.

In my opinion Croatia has not done that.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

In international community has judged that Croatia did not commit war crimes. Individuals committed crimes, and they were punished by domestic courts. The overall operations they undertook were legal.

You were the only one there? I was also there. I know what I saw, and I probably know more people there than you do (on all sides) and I know what they've told me. Your and my personal experiences don't mean ####.

####ing pathetic.

Deny all you want.

It doesn't change the truth.

[Ugly Kid Joe]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Nope I mean Croatian.

I know what I saw, I know what my comrades saw, I know what the population told me.

I was there too. I know what I saw and what my comrades saw as well. I'm with UCB on this one. I don't follow this thread much. I can smell these pictures and all the memories that go with them.