2016 NHL Draft

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Another knock I have against Keller besides his size is that he's an American going to college next season. He sees the log jam we have at centre and he decides to do his 4 years in college and go UFA on us.

Keller is a surefire one-and-done. He'll be forgoing 3 years - or potentially 3+ million dollars, to go UFA on us.

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Keller is listed as a Centre, does he project to stay there or likely move to wing?

He's a natural center, strong on the faceoff dot and knows his responsibilities. But at the NHL level I see him as a jack of all trades top 6 forward who plays mostly wing. Can play center in a pinch but with Bennett and Monahan there healthy he would play wing.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Tell that to the Pens who have guys like Connor Sheary 5'8, 157 and Bryan Rust 5'11, 190 stepping in and making a huge impact.

Im not biting on that. Look who sheary and rust play with come on man. Rust is pretty thick at 190 as well.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I disagree. Especially with respect to Keller. He is as dynamic a prospect as you will find in any draft. I've said this in another thread; draft Keller, add him to the collection of stud centers under 21 along with Bennett and Jankowski.

The best center of the lot stays in the middle on the 2nd line. The player who plays best with that center kicks out to the wing. The 3rd man becomes the #3C and Backlund is traded for help. In my head, Bennett stays the #2C, Keller is his wingman, and all 6 ft 4 200+ lbs of Jankowski anchors the third line.

The Oilers are the Oilers because some of their most important players have massive entitlement issues and their roster construction is fundamentally flawed. I just want a team with two Gaudreaus.

I respect your enthusiasm for Keller, but if he were the type of player you are suggesting he would like be in the discussion for #1 not #6 or later. I think people have forgotten the book on this draft before the hype started. This was a draft of three possible great players, top line players, then a group of guys that would be good support players, 2nd and 3rd line level guys. I think we have just had way too much time to see the hype build on these guys to the point where they can't live up to expectations.

I also respect your desire to have two Gaudreaus. Unfortunately I'm not sure that would work in the league today, especially in the west. I love Johnny Gaudreau, but I sure got tired of watching him get pushed around against the top teams. As much as we need another skill guy, we need some bodies that are not getting to get pushed around. That doesn't mean guys that throw punches, it means guys with size that can fight through checks and play a heavy game. A Joe Thornton level player on the 2nd line would be a real cross to bear for this team. Given that we have a lot of small prospects we need those big bodies more than anything.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Another knock I have against Keller besides his size is that he's an American going to college next season. He sees the log jam we have at centre and he decides to do his 4 years in college and go UFA on us.

Or he sees the chance to play with Sam Bennett for ten years against 2nd pairing D.

The biggest star in college hockey signed with us when Jay Feaster was still the GM. Our American-born stud goalie prospect signed without incident. The 'Best player in his draft ten years from now' signed as soon as he was able to get out of his footie jam jams.

The Flames have never had an issue signing college players.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Im not biting on that. Look who sheary and rust play with come on man. Rust is pretty thick at 190 as well.

Gaudreau (Super-Rich man's Sheary) - Bennett (Poor man's Crosby) - Frolik (basically Hornqvist)

Keller (Super-rich man's rust)-Monahan(homeless man's Malkin)-Ferland (??? man's Kunitz)

Or you could say Ferland is Rust on Steroids and Keller is Mini Kunitz. Still works.

and for good measure...

Backlund (Very rich man's Hagelin) - Jankowski (Rich man's Bonino) - Poirier (homeless man's Kessel)

There ya go, a top 9 that stylistically resembles the Pens top 9.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Gaudreau (Super-Rich man's Sheary) - Bennett (Poor man's Crosby) - Frolik (basically Hornqvist)

Keller (Super-rich man's rust)-Monahan(homeless man's Malkin)-Ferland (??? man's Kunitz)

and for good measure...

Backlund (Rich man's Hagelin) - Jankowski (Rich man's Bonino) - Poirier (homeless man's Kessel)

There ya go, a top 9 that stylistically resembles the Pens top 9.

"Homeless man's Malkin"

[dammage79]

Ferland isn't and will not be a top 6 forward.

[dissentowner]

Craig Button at the combine: " Logan Brown will go top 5." Ranks him 7th a few days later lol. Sorry but I have always seen Craig as not the smartest cookie in the jar when it comes to player potential.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Craig Button at the combine: " Logan Brown will go top 5." Ranks him 7th a few days later lol. Sorry but I have always seen Craig as not the smartest cookie in the jar when it comes to player potential.

Button's list isn't his prediction of the draft order. It's his personal ranking of the players.

He can think Brown is the 7th-best player available while also thinking Vancouver will likely pick Brown. Those aren't conflicting ideas.

[bigrangy]

^He said Virtanen would go 6th, ranked him in the 40's.

Rankings =/= Mock Draft for Button. His mock will be coming out later.

[Southside]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Ferland isn't and will not be a top 6 forward.

Inclined to agree, but he will be an interesting one to watch with a new coach. I think Hartley coached him out of his element and I am hopeful we see a different Ferland this season.

[DJones]

Edit; Way late

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Gaudreau (Super-Rich man's Sheary) - Bennett (Poor man's Crosby) - Frolik (basically Hornqvist)

Keller (Super-rich man's rust)-Monahan(homeless man's Malkin)-Ferland (??? man's Kunitz)

Or you could say Ferland is Rust on Steroids and Keller is Mini Kunitz. Still works.

and for good measure...

Backlund (Very rich man's Hagelin) - Jankowski (Rich man's Bonino) - Poirier (homeless man's Kessel)

There ya go, a top 9 that stylistically resembles the Pens top 9.

Ha a good laugh at this. But come on you cant even compare and im on my cell phone i cant type up 10 pages of arguing and disagreeing

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Why?

There is so much Johnny in Keller's game. It's uncanny. Instead of spending the next ten years arguing if Bennett or Monahan should play with Gaudreau, we should get Bennett his own Gaudreau..

The hands, the speed, the edge work, the vision, they're all there. Keller looks like he might have a better shot. Watch the highlights. He's never getting touched. At all. It's not for lack of going to the high traffic areas - he drives the net and forces the issue.

I do agree, I don't see us building around Shinkaruk or Mangiapane. I think Mangiapane is a 3rd liner and Shinkaruk is a stopgap at best. Neither are a reason to not draft Keller.

I dunno I haven't been that wowed by Keller highlights. I think Johnny is considerably more elusive. Keller isn't as quick, isn't as shifty IMO. I don't think he has the same ability to school defenders 1 on 1 at the NHL level. Keller is an insane playmaker I'll give him that.

I just don't see him as a big need. It's not hard to draft insanely talented small guys. It's hard to find top pairing dmen, 1st line powerforwards and big, top line centres. I think one of those commodities will be available at #6.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Ferland isn't and will not be a top 6 forward.

And Bryan Rust is?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

And Bryan Rust is?

IDC about Rust.

[polak]

The thing with players like Johnny and Kane is that they have to be as good as Johnny and Kane or it doesn't work.

You don't see very many career NHL'ers their size that aren't also some of the best players in the league.

That's a huge bar to have to meet to even be considered a good pick.

For that reason, not a fan of Keller at 6.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I dunno I haven't been that wowed by Keller highlights. I think Johnny is considerably more elusive. Keller isn't as quick, isn't as shifty IMO. I don't think he has the same ability to school defenders 1 on 1 at the NHL level. Keller is an insane playmaker I'll give him that.

I just don't see him as a big need. It's not hard to draft insanely talented small guys. It's hard to find top pairing dmen, 1st line powerforwards and big, top line centres. I think one of those commodities will be available at #6.

If the Flames were going to use the 6th overall pick based on need they would draft Nylander and call it a day as top 6 RW is by far the most deficient position in the organization. It sounds to me like they will take BPA and if they view Keller as BPA then I would assume they would take him. We have been going over this for so long now it's kind of exhausting trying to determine who they may have penciled in at this point or who's on their short list and I for one can't wait to finally get to June 24 to finally get some closure.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Every year, like every year, Bob McKenzies final list is bang on in the top ten. Maybe a slight variant in one or two picks every odd year or so. If any list is the truest indicator it's Bobs.

I don't mind Craigslist though because outside of his one or two outlandish hard on type picks (Keller and Brown this year), I love his top 100. As far as ranking goes, he's pretty good 30th and down.

I like the variance he brings to the media lists, but historically he has some real oddball infatuations every year.

That's my point. They are completely different things.
Bob's list is aggregating scouts he's talked to. It has nothing to do with his opinion of the player. It is designed to predict the first round not project the best player.
Button's list is a personal view that is the opposite. It has nothing to do with predicting the first round. It is designed to project the best player. Pronman's is the same.

So there is no point in comparing them.

[Par]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

The eastern conference is a whole different animal

The Western conference "animal" is being slaughtered by the different Eastern conference animal