Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[Red]

And then there is a flip side. Why is the deficit budget bad for me? Realistically please. Don't do the "saddle ur kids with debts BS" because things don't work like that.

And no, I'm not saying that having deficits is good or preferable. I'm just not in favor of a sales tax.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Red

And then there is a flip side. Why is the deficit budget bad for me? Realistically please. Don't do the "saddle ur kids with debts BS" because things don't work like that.

And no, I'm not saying that having deficits is good or preferable. I'm just not in favor of a sales tax.

Because your province has no fiscal room in the case of a disaster or recession and continued dependence on royalty revenue will hamper the possibility of future economic diversification. You are in the process of turning Alberta into a toilet for future economic investment.

[Red]

Originally Posted by peter12

Because your province has no fiscal room in the case of a disaster or recession and continued dependence on royalty revenue will hamper the possibility of future economic diversification. You are in the process of turning Alberta into a toilet for future economic investment.

So they borrow. Economy grows, debt gets cheaper. If in trouble, feds run inflation, debt shrinks.
Rinse and repeat. Been done to death.

Governments don't pay off debts the way you or I do.

Fiscal hole or not, this will not matter or me or you. It's political points.

To a point. Just want to make that clear. Alberta can run deficits for a long time and still be in better shape than rest of Canada. And we don't exaclty hear them going bankrupt.

[Madman]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

So AB doesn't have to rely on a volatile resource revenue?

Sure, then all those public sector wages that were negotiated on when we did rely on a volatile resource can be rolled back as well. Or are those off limits? Or are those who work(ed) in said volatile resource industry the only ones who have to sacrifice?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Not sure how adding a PST solves the governments spending problem.

The more we give em the more they'll waste.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

Speaking as a small-minded consumer; when I make a purchase I want the ticket price to be the final cost. It boggles my mind trying to calculate an additional 5 or 10% at the till. Hide the tax and everyone will pay without all the hatred/drama.

I'm in favor of an HST for Alberta but fall squarely in the camp of NOT showing an all in price. To me it's important we are reminded of the amount of tax in each and every purchase. And it's dead simple to figure out a 10% tax or even a 5% tax, you can do it in your head. The oddball numbers like 7% yeah, it's a little more mental gymnastics but still you can do a pretty accurate estimate in your head.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Red

So they borrow. Economy grows, debt gets cheaper. If in trouble, feds run inflation, debt shrinks.
Rinse and repeat. Been done to death.

Governments don't pay off debts the way you or I do.

Fiscal hole or not, this will not matter or me or you. It's political points.

To a point. Just want to make that clear. Alberta can run deficits for a long time and still be in better shape than rest of Canada. And we don't exaclty hear them going bankrupt.

Just out of curiosity, how did you feel when the NDP was doing this?

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

I'm in favor of an HST for Alberta but fall squarely in the camp of NOT showing an all in price. To me it's important we are reminded of the amount of tax in each and every purchase. And it's dead simple to figure out a 10% tax or even a 5% tax, you can do it in your head. The oddball numbers like 7% yeah, it's a little more mental gymnastics but still you can do a pretty accurate estimate in your head.

True, the math itself is not really an issue but every time you do it you are reminded of a tax you don’t like paying. If you want to profit from consumers’ spending habits you should make each purchase as pleasant as possible.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Just out of curiosity, how did you feel when the NDP was doing this?

They were here for 4 years. How did they hurt you exactly?

By 2024 you will beg for the NDP deficits. We will call them the good old days.

And enough with the NDP. They have become the Trumpers Obama. An excuse for everything. You guys are better than that.

PST crowd. Ask people in PST provinces if their issues got fixed and if they would drop the PST given a chance.

Don't take it from me.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The more we give em the more they'll waste.

Who is we, and who is they?

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Red

And then there is a flip side. Why is the deficit budget bad for me? Realistically please. Don't do the "saddle ur kids with debts BS" because things don't work like that.

And no, I'm not saying that having deficits is good or preferable. I'm just not in favor of a sales tax.

Well, at least since deficits are fine we don't have to worry about the price of oil crashing.

(I'm aware houses and governments operate in very different ways and sometimes a deficit is OK. Overall, Alberta's balance sheet is in pretty good shape compared to other provinces but we have structural challenges in the long term if we continue to base everything on the price of oil)

[burn_this_city]

Well Black Monday sure sucked.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

I'm in favor of an HST for Alberta but fall squarely in the camp of NOT showing an all in price. To me it's important we are reminded of the amount of tax in each and every purchase. And it's dead simple to figure out a 10% tax or even a 5% tax, you can do it in your head. The oddball numbers like 7% yeah, it's a little more mental gymnastics but still you can do a pretty accurate estimate in your head.

but...why?

taxes are never going away and theres nothing i can do about it, i'd rather just know the final price of whatever i'm buying outright. it is truly odd we dont include taxes in the price of everything. they could include the pre-tax price on your receipt if you're morbidly curious for some reason

[Red]

Originally Posted by Torture

Well, at least since deficits are fine we don't have to worry about the price of oil crashing.

(I'm aware houses and governments operate in very different ways and sometimes a deficit is OK. Overall, Alberta's balance sheet is in pretty good shape compared to other provinces but we have structural challenges in the long term if we continue to base everything on the price of oil)

We can collect PST and bail out the O&G sector. Murray Edwards would probably move back to Canada too

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Red

We can collect PST and bail out the O&G sector. Murray Edwards would probably move back to Canada too

We can bail them out without a PST. Deficits are fine! Spend spend spend!

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

True, the math itself is not really an issue but every time you do it you are reminded of a tax you don’t like paying. If you want to profit from consumers’ spending habits you should make each purchase as pleasant as possible.

That is the point, to be reminded of the tax.

From a consumer perspective I want to see the effect of the tax each and every time. But I agree from a government perspective making the tax as transparent as possible by rolling it into the sticker price is desirable.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Red

They were here for 4 years. How did they hurt you exactly?

By 2024 you will beg for the NDP deficits. We will call them the good old days.

And enough with the NDP. They have become the Trumpers Obama. An excuse for everything. You guys are better than that.

PST crowd. Ask people in PST provinces if their issues got fixed and if they would drop the PST given a chance.

Don't take it from me.

I'm asking whether or not you supported them running up the deficit, because that's what you're advocating for right now. Really just seeing if you were consistently advocating for deficit spending (frankly, that's a fine viewpoint to have).

I can't even tell with your response what your opinion is.

[Nufy]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

That is the point, to be reminded of the tax.

From a consumer perspective I want to see the effect of the tax each and every time. But I agree from a government perspective making the tax as transparent as possible by rolling it into the sticker price is desirable.

Do we really want every receipt to look like an Enmax bill.

Item 1...XXX Dollars
Service fee
delivery fee
rate rider fee
System access fee
Shelf allocation adjustment tax
Just because I can tax...

[Red]

Originally Posted by Regorium

I'm asking whether or not you supported them running up the deficit, because that's what you're advocating for right now. Really just seeing if you were consistently advocating for deficit spending (frankly, that's a fine viewpoint to have).

I can't even tell with your response what your opinion is.

Sorry, should have answered in the other post. I was for borrowing for infrastructure. I was also for the Olympics. And I was really excited for the transit plans here which some are not shelved. All of which would have put us in the red, but I believe we'd be better off long term.

[Johnny Makarov]

So should Teck be thanking the protesters now?

What is the break even on oil sands oil? $28/barrel?