Conservatives To Slash Federal Funding of Political Parties [Update-CPC backs down]

[C_Rush]

^^^ Amen. This is essentially a bloodless political coup to circumvent the Canadian electorate's wishes. makes me want to puke.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Layton is a scumbag, none of this really surprises me, but I am sickened there is the prospect of a "seperatist" party ruling canada

At this point, all partisan feelings aside... I feel sick. This is such an embarrassment to the Canadian people for their democratic wishes to be flouted so casually. Unbelievable.

If I was the Conservatives, I would be going to every prominent federalist member of the Liberal Party and getting them to come over. Undemocratic, yes, but if another election won't be called then this might be the only solution.

[Ford Prefect]

From the CTV story:

Layton also says about the Bloc: "Nothing could be better for our country than to have 50 members who have been elected to separate Quebec...actually helping to make Canada a better place."

Holy . Does he actually believe that's the Bloc's motivation? To make Canada a better place? This is just all so surreal ... I keep hoping I'm going to wake up and find it was just a bad dream caused by having pizza for a bedtime snack.

[peter12]

And just to show I can see both sides... Harper has to go after this, even if this was a strategic move, it's very clear that it has failed miserable and if this was calculated he needs to be punished for being pushed so close to the brink of a democratic and constitutional crisis.

Get someone else in there after this is all over.

[metallicat]

Like who? I am not willing to concede that far. I think Harper has been a fine PM, and would have continued to do a fine job had this country not been tampered with this way. The vast majority on this board were in favour of Harper's move, and I don't think this cout was warranted at all.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by peter12

And just to show I can see both sides... Harper has to go after this, even if this was a strategic move, it's very clear that it has failed miserable and if this was calculated he needs to be punished for being pushed so close to the brink of a democratic and constitutional crisis.

Get someone else in there after this is all over.

I would agree ... except that the coalition now appears to have cooked this up some time ago and was just waiting in ambush for an opportunity to implement their plan. If that's the scenario, it didn't matter what Harper did, this was going to happen anyways. It might have taken them additional weeks or months to find an excuse, but it was still going happen.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

I would agree ... except that the coalition now appears to have cooked this up some time ago and was just waiting in ambush for an opportunity to implement their plan. If that's the scenario, it didn't matter what Harper did, this was going to happen anyways. It might have taken them additional weeks or months to find an excuse, but it was still going happen.

That's certainly true. I don't know... at this point, I've satisfied myself that the coalition is wrong and nothing will convince me otherwise. I know what the opposition is doing is absolutely wrong for this country, but I just feel sick as these , piece of garbage politicians just keep going forward with it. It's unbelievable.

[C_Rush]

Essentially, what I'm taking from all this is: the opposition parties (by Layton's own admission) have been working this plan for a while as a Plan B - if the voters don't elect us, we'll seize power ourselves at the first opportunity because the Canadian electorate obviously can't be trusted to make the correct political decisions for themselves. We know better than the voters.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by peter12

That's certainly true. I don't know... at this point, I've satisfied myself that the coalition is wrong and nothing will convince me otherwise. I know what the opposition is doing is absolutely wrong for this country, but I just feel sick as these , piece of garbage politicians just keep going forward with it. It's unbelievable.

Ya, makes me sick too. Harper certainly shares some of the blame for trying to push through a measure that the opposition parties had to react to because it was a strike at their jugulars ... ie, their subsidy entitlement. I agree in principle with eliminating that subsidy, but Harper should have known better than to back them into a corner like that with a minority government. However, he's backed away from that move, and it now seems clear that while that was the initial excuse for the coalition to go into action, that's not really the true root cause and this scenario would have emerged regardless.

I am almost certain that GG Jean will accept the coalition too, and that Harper, Layton and Dion all know this. The Liberals and NDP, particularly the Liberals, are in no position to stage an election right now. They don't have the money, and I suspect the electorate would not be too kind to either party over this. I don't think they would be playing hardball like this unless they know they can grab power without having to face an election to do so.

If it's known that the GG will accept the coalition, that would also explain why Harper is backtracking on the subsidy and other issues (banning essential service strikes). Harper's ego doesn't allow him to back off easily, so I'm a little surprised he's doing this, unless he knows where this is headed if it winds up in the GG's lap. It also would indicate he must know or believe this won't go to an election. I think an election would be in his favour and he wouldn't be back pedaling if he thought an election would be the outcome of it all.

Some have suggested Harper might have planned all this to try to force an election, but misjudged the Liberals and NDP actually getting into bed with the Bloc, but that just doesn't sound right to me. Why would Harper try to force an election just 6 weeks after he won a strengthened mandate? That just doesn't seem like a likely scenario to me.

Whatever all the back room machinations are that created this mess, it's turning into a disaster for the country.

[C_Rush]

The only way I can the Conservatives pulling this out of the fire is somehow convincing 12 Liberals to cross the aisle and form a majority government. Does Harper have the political savvy to pull off such a daunting task???

[Devils'Advocate]

I don't see there being a huge political fail out. Everyone knew that the election was three left of centre parties (four if you count the Greens) and one right of centre party. There are more "left of centre" seats than there are "right of centre" seats. The Liberal supporters, NDP supporters and Bloc supporters will be more than happy to see that their party will help form policy rather than the right of centre party. I can tell you that we NDP supporters are very happy to see this coallition.

And I can see that the Conservative supporters are absolutely irate... so it must be the right move.

As for when the NDP talked to the Bloc... I asked in the election thread why they wouldn't form a coalition right from the get go since the Liberals, NDP and Bloc agree in goals (other than separation of Quebec) if not the means to achieve those goals. I was shot down saying that they would never do that.

[peter12]

If this works, it's all well and good for a time, but the NDP and Liberal will wear this for a long time. In bed with the separatists and even before they were "provoked." Disgusting.

[metallicat]

https://mycampaign.conservative.ca/EN/2459/107737

There a link to the CPC website which has the audio of Layton discussing this coalition plan prior to the economic update last week.

[peter12]

I can tell you that we NDP supporters are very happy to see this coallition.

Doesn't say much for the intelligence of the average NDP voter, but I've known this for a very long time.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by peter12

This will happen. The Conservatives will fall by next week and we will be completely screwed. How could this possibly happen?

Ask your sweater wearing friend Steve. This is almost entirely on him.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Ask your sweater wearing friend Steve. This is almost entirely on him.

No it isn't. Not even close.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by peter12

Doesn't say much for the intelligence of the average NDP voter, but I've known this for a very long time.

Oh wow. Sour grapes much? I really don't know what to say to this. My mom is an NDP supporter and Campaign manager, and there's a couple NDPers who post here soooo I'll give you a chance to edit your post and leave a very nice apology before flaming back.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

No it isn't. Not even close.

Ok...

This just might go down as one of the greatest political blunders in the history of Canada.

[FanIn80]

"BQ stability issues, worry about BQ potentially being off-side, we're taking that very much into account. We have numerous strategies designed to deal with it, I actually believe they're the least of our problems, but in case I'm wrong, let's just say we have strategies, this whole thing would not have happened if the moves hadn't have been made with the Bloc to lock them in early, because you couldn't put three people together in one, in three hours. The first part was done a long time ago, I won't go into details…” – Jack Layton

"The coalition for Canada, I love the idea, it could be a deal-breaker for the Bloc so if we don't go, we call it "The Coalition for Canada and Quebec." – Jack Layton

"…nobody really imagined that it would be possible for the Bloc Quebecois, the Liberal party of Canada ever to enter into any kind of a discussion around the future of the country and it turned out that we were the glue…" – Jack Layton

Looks like Jack Layton will be the one running this country. Don't worry, I'm sure we'll be fine.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Oh wow. Sour grapes much? I really don't know what to say to this. My mom is an NDP supporter and Campaign manager, and there's a couple NDPers who post here soooo I'll give you a chance to edit your post and leave a very nice apology before flaming back.

Sorry for insulting your mom?

My question is, what do NDP'ers believe in? They seem extremely willing to sell out their values or leverage whatever power they have at any given moment, so what is their purpose?

For the record, I didn't vote Conservative in this last election.