Major Water Main Break in Bowness Area

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

Not sure if this is true but heard one of the city workers lost their leg or foot in that incident yesterday. Awful if true.

Jesus, wtf?

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Sliver

So how long should this take? How do you know - without a comparable - that this is taking too long? Is your criteria just, 'I think this should be done faster'?

I have zero experience or knowledge in this department like pretty much all other Calgarian's. I have no issue with the restrictions personally and have abided by them, but that clearly isn't everybody and probably not even the Mayor.

If this does indeed take a total of 2-3 weeks from start to finish, hopefully some lessons are learned for this and other mission critical infrastructure. We keep being told how critical this and I agree. Hopefully some additional knowledge and preventative planning can be shared with other cities in Canada.

If this had happened in the worst case scenario and the repairs took 30-45 days or more, would your response be "Ahh shucks, no water, no problem"?

I know how government officials beat around the bush. They should have and should continue to actual put the fear into people about where we are in this situation. We went from 5-7 days to 2+ weeks potentially. You need to dumb things down and let people know what the actual risks are beyond drinking water and short showers. Major explosion, a terror attack, a plane crash, another major watermain break etc.

It probably doesn't look good when we have all the government officials at the podium looking all fresh, clean and showered during this "water crisis"

[Wormius]

Dude. Nobody said don’t take a shower to clean yourself. You’re upset because they don’t look sufficiently disheveled??

[Wormius]

Curves. Please tell me you’re cleaning yourself.

[Paulie Walnuts]

lol

[GGG]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I have zero experience or knowledge in this department like pretty much all other Calgarian's. I have no issue with the restrictions personally and have abided by them, but that clearly isn't everybody and probably not even the Mayor.

If this does indeed take a total of 2-3 weeks from start to finish, hopefully some lessons are learned for this and other mission critical infrastructure. We keep being told how critical this and I agree. Hopefully some additional knowledge and preventative planning can be shared with other cities in Canada.

If this had happened in the worst case scenario and the repairs took 30-45 days or more, would your response be "Ahh shucks, no water, no problem"?

I know how government officials beat around the bush. They should have and should continue to actual put the fear into people about where we are in this situation. We went from 5-7 days to 2+ weeks potentially. You need to dumb things down and let people know what the actual risks are beyond drinking water and short showers. Major explosion, a terror attack, a plane crash, another major watermain break etc.

It probably doesn't look good when we have all the government officials at the podium looking all fresh, clean and showered during this "water crisis"

The current level of problem face by Calgarians as a result of this incident barely rises to minor inconvenience. This appears to have been a well mitigated risk.

Why do you believe the worst case repairs are 30-45 days?

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Dude. Nobody said don’t take a shower to clean yourself. You’re upset because they don’t look sufficiently disheveled??

Not upset one bit but people and businesses in the area and Calgary are getting a little antsy. Frankly this has been financially beneficial for me personally due to significant less water use for business/properties that I pay for. In my house in Europe, we have back up systems and reserves for this type of scenario.

If we get an update tomorrow/ this weekend that further delays may occur, will your confidence be as high that this is being handled great?

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by GGG

The current level of problem face by Calgarians as a result of this incident barely rises to minor inconvenience. This appears to have been a well mitigated risk.

Why do you believe the worst case repairs are 30-45 days?

Hypothetically if this had occurred somewhere else other than 16th Ave/TCH, say the Safeway next door or under another major building etc. In the middle of the winter and -25 weather, how would you clean this mess up, dig up earth, have people working in extreme temperatures and waiting for parts etc.

This seems like we have an awful lot riding on a single pipe and hopefully we can mitigate additional risk in the future.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Not upset one bit but people and businesses in the area and Calgary are getting a little antsy. Frankly this has been financially beneficial for me personally due to significant less water use for business/properties that I pay for. In my house in Europe, we have back up systems and reserves for this type of scenario.

If we get an update tomorrow/ this weekend that further delays may occur, will your confidence be as high that this is being handled great?

Water is so cheap that I doubt it is that big of a deal financially for anyone using less water.

[btimbit]

Even if it took 3 months I'm not sure my reaction would be any different. We stopped watering our lawns and usage went down more than enough. If that went on longer... woopty doo basil

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Hypothetically if this had occurred somewhere else other than 16th Ave/TCH, say the Safeway next door or under another major building etc. In the middle of the winter and -25 weather, how would you clean this mess up, dig up earth, have people working in extreme temperatures and waiting for parts etc.

This seems like we have an awful lot riding on a single pipe and hopefully we can mitigate additional risk in the future.

"Hypothetically" they don't run water mains like this under private buildings, so that's not a worst case, it's a never case. Also "but that clearly isn't everybody and probably not even the Mayor." That you, Theo? You should spend less time assuming things and more time learning about them.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

"Hypothetically" they don't run water mains like this under private buildings, so that's not a worst case, it's a never case. Also "but that clearly isn't everybody and probably not even the Mayor." That you, Theo? You should spend less time assuming things and more time learning about them.

As I had stated previously. I have zero experience in this department at all but I would love to learn more about your specific experience on the outcome of this in the middle of winter, -25 degree weather and without the affected part being in stock? I assume your extensive experience would lead you to tell us CP brain trust that those are non factors? Private buildings, public buildings or whatever, if this break had happened in a less accessible area, would that be any different?

Pick and choose much?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Hypothetically if this had occurred somewhere else other than 16th Ave/TCH, say the Safeway next door or under another major building etc. In the middle of the winter and -25 weather, how would you clean this mess up, dig up earth, have people working in extreme temperatures and waiting for parts etc.

This seems like we have an awful lot riding on a single pipe and hopefully we can mitigate additional risk in the future.

Hypothetically if the Calgary Tower fell over in the dead of winter.. well just imagine that mess!

Are you concerned about that too?

[btimbit]

I mean, come on. Outrage culture is the worst. Is there really a need for anyone to go 'Well sure, this isn't an outrage now, but what if it was worse? Then this would be an outrage!'

Repairs are going well, oh no I had to water my tomatoes with leftover water from boiling noodles. What if this happened in the winter and repairs took longer? Well there wouldn't be outdoor water use to restrict so, alrighty then

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

As I had stated previously. I have zero experience in this department at all but I would love to learn more about your specific experience on the outcome of this in the middle of winter, -25 degree weather and without the affected part being in stock? I assume your extensive experience would lead you to tell us CP brain trust that those are non factors?

Pick and choose much?

Pick and choose what? I have to refute every thought you think? OK, just this once. I don't know, but I'd suspect their is seasonality to our water use, so the first thing I'd do, myself, is go see if my suspicion is true.



https://www.calgary.ca/content/dam/w...iency-plan.pdf


Oh look, their is! What a crazy thing to be true. So already we have lower demand in the winter. And what, people can't have shorter showers then? I'm not sure what you are even getting at with this point, other than you never learned how to find answers yourself before looking silly making assumptions on the internet.


And I've learned almost everything I know about water systems since this incident started. I don't know a lot, but when I think up question I tend to see what the facts are before assuming they are unsolvable problems.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I mean, come on. Outrage culture is the worst. Is there really a need for anyone to go 'Well sure, this isn't an outrage now, but what if it was worse? Then this would be an outrage!'

Repairs are going well, oh no I had to water my tomatoes with leftover water from boiling noodles. What if this happened in the winter and repairs took longer? Well there wouldn't be outdoor water use to restrict so, alrighty then

But what if an extinction level meteorite hits the Safeway next to this line? Does the city have a plan in place for that? Our mayor probably doesn't even own a telescope!

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Pick and choose what? I have to refute every thought you think? OK, just this once. I don't know, but I'd suspect their is seasonality to our water use, so the first thing I'd do, myself, is go see if my suspicion is true.



file:///C:/Users/martin/Downloads/water-efficiency-plan-1.pdf


Oh look, their is! What a crazy thing to be true. So already we have lower demand in the winter. And what, people can't have shorter showers then? I'm not sure what you are even getting at with this point, other than you never learned how to find answers yourself before looking silly making assumptions on the internet.


And I've learned almost everything I know about water systems since this incident started. I don't know a lot, but when I think up question I tend to see what the facts are before assuming they are unsolvable problems.

Facts are weather, cold weather, location of the pipe and more all increase the length of time for the repair as per the City of Calgary since your all about facts and solving problems. I can't believe I am actually arguing with someone from Canada about what happens to water outdoors when it's exploding from the ground everywhere and it's -25 out. A hockey fan no less! LOL. This conversation is beneath me at this point and I am out.

https://www.calgary.ca/water/custome...r-outages.html

" The time it takes to fix a break varies due to several factors including the size of the break, digging in frozen ground, how quickly the break can be located, and the current weather conditions."

"How does temperature impact water mains?
The longer the temperature stays below freezing, the deeper the frost goes, putting pressure on water main and service pipes. Winter frost depths in Calgary typically range from two to three metres. Frozen ground increases the amount of time required to access the water pipes, resulting in a longer time frame to restore water. Pipes are buried around three to four metres deep."

[Fuzz]

LOL, k. Not sure much exists beneath you.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Facts are weather, cold weather, location of the pipe and more all increase the length of time for the repair as per the City of Calgary since your all about facts and solving problems. I can't believe I am actually arguing with someone from Canada about what happens to water outdoors when it's exploding from the ground everywhere and it's -25 out. A hockey fan no less! LOL. This conversation is beneath me at this point and I am out.

https://www.calgary.ca/water/custome...r-outages.html

" The time it takes to fix a break varies due to several factors including the size of the break, digging in frozen ground, how quickly the break can be located, and the current weather conditions."

"How does temperature impact water mains?
The longer the temperature stays below freezing, the deeper the frost goes, putting pressure on water main and service pipes. Winter frost depths in Calgary typically range from two to three metres. Frozen ground increases the amount of time required to access the water pipes, resulting in a longer time frame to restore water. Pipes are buried around three to four metres deep."

Did you read anything?

If there was a water main break in the middle of winter, the demand at that time of year is decreased so that the amount of capacity we lose until a repair doesn’t need to be immediately replaced.

[btimbit]

Curves, what is your actual point/question? I'm really unsure what argument you're even trying to make here. What if this happened in winter and took longer to repair? Then it would take longer to repair, but we use way less water in the winter, so whatever. We clearly already have redundancies in the system since even now all we had to do was limit usage slightly and everything is fine. There are water main breaks every winter, the sky hasn't fallen yet

Like, what's even there to discuss here? You asked what would happen if there was a "Major explosion, a terror attack, a plane crash, another major watermain break etc." Believe it or not, CEMA has plans for all that too.