Real estate in Calgary - another bubble?

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Home inspections are basically opinions though. There isn’t any real investigative work done so would you have to share an opinion? Can they tell some things? For sure.

Depends on what it is. Some things are more objective than others. For example, if a window is leaking, it's leaking. That's not an opinion. Also, if a professional inspector discloses specific issues to you, it's pretty hard to later deny you did not know about them. It's no different than hiring a tradesman and them telling you there's a major problem. That most certainly counts as having knowledge of the problem.

You're correct though, there is some grey area there. Once again, inspectors are quite limited in what they can actually find. IMO you really need a good real estate agent, who will suss out the major issues in the property and negotiate a sales contract that protects you.

I bought my house no inspection, but my real estate agent also made sure that all the warranties the other agent made were written into the contract in plain language. For example, it was an older place, and there were potential
issues with knob and tube wiring. He wrote into the contract that the other side guarantees there is no knob and tube wiring in the house. We later found out one room had knob and tube, and the sellers are now paying to pull that wiring out.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Home inspections are basically opinions though. There isn’t any real investigative work done so would you have to share an opinion? Can they tell some things? For sure.

For sure there's some stuff that's grey area, but it's good to have one done because they know what to look for, or can see signs of stuff that might be wrong. Typically the things that will really cost a lot are potential foundational issues, or anything to do with moisture / leakage, and a good inspector should be able to see signs of those.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would take the best offer that doesn’t include a house inspection if you are lucky enough to receive one. I sold my house in less than 48 hours above asking price and with no inspection which is about as perfect a sale as you can hope for as some people will nickel and dime you if the house inspection brings up stuff like windows needing replacement, foundation cracks, gutter repairs, HVAC service, etc.

This doesn't totally make sense. Many banks will refuse to finance without an inspection (hell, my mortgagors ate the cost of the inspection). But if you can get away without one, great. But also as others mentioned, the inspection is pretty superficial anyways.

Furthermore, caveats can be put on the inspection if the condition is disclosed beforehand on the listing (ie: considered built into the price).

ie: HVAC is older but functional at this point, should still work fine for a few more years. Roof is older, but no issues with leaks and not expected to require replacement for another few years. Windows are old, price reflected, you replace at your own time etc.

I've received conditions on the home inspection that I can only renegotiate for things in excess of what have already been disclosed. So if they told me that there are certain things that may need repairs/replacement within a few years, I cannot renegotiate about that. But if the inspector finds something extra, that I can renegotiate price on.

Originally Posted by Weitz

I mean I would have just said no to any price reduction on the inspection. Then went back to the market if needed.

Depends how quick you want to sell though and what your list was relative to the market.

You can state that, but I believe my realtor says you can't put conditions that lock them in and don't offer a way out. So you can state that they cannot renegotiate on anything disclosed due to the inspection. But you cannot basically state they cannot use the inspection to pull out of the deal or renegotiate for things not previously disclosed.

Maybe I just had better realtors who understood not just the sales side, but the seller/negotiations side/legal side and were great at explaining that to me.

We view the money as value but value isn't just the purchase price for both sides.

- Deposit (Amount, non-refundable/refundable (conditions for refund), how fast you can get the cheque to the seller realtor etc.)

- Possession date (A month of extra mortgage and expenses adds up to a certain value, consider using the mortgage calculator in reverse when negotiating a possession date with the seller). But whether the owners need to move out vs an empty house are things to contemplate too.

- Chattel (Ask about things you wouldn't mind keeping and put a value to it. Things that would cost you way more to get one into the house and isn't relatively valuable to the seller but would cost them money to have the movers move. ie: BBQ, extra fridges, furniture, vehicle etc.) Sometimes you negotiate on price aggressively because there are things you need to buy for several thousand dollars. You can decide not to push so hard on that last few grand if you don't need to spend that money, but also put into wording the repercussions if the chattel you want isn't left behind (ie: seller realtor would have to cough up equivalent value from the commissions vs no idea where family disappeared to). I dunno if that last part is enforceable, but usually the realtor will help to facilitate that part to ensure it doesn't happen when they give the seller the gift and whatnot.

- Misc: Once you open up the "how can we make this sale easier for you" convo between the realtor, you can ask if there's other considerations that can help make it easier for the seller to take on your demands. For any of these side deals though, definitely write out a contract external to the house sale. Don't roll all of it into the purchase price, don't rely on verbal agreements.

---

Personally, on the realtor side, I've asked for the seller's furniture, extra fridge, BBQ etc. and relaxed my stance on a few grand of negotiations. In our current place, my wife laments that we should have asked for a really nice bunk bed that the seller had moved last to stage the home. I bought a brand new townhouse and I arranged a side deal with the seller to buy all the new~ish staging furniture for a steal in exchange for not negotiating as aggressively on the final last bit of the selling price (as it would be used as a comparable for him selling the other units). He was happy to save costs/time on moving/storing and selling it and I got nice fricken stuff I would never be able to justify buying myself.

My buddy stored a car (for a super miniscule fee) for a few months for a guy moving to BC for work on short notice, and then was able to buy it off him for a great price (as it was super low hassle for the seller) when the guy got a company car and didn't need his car anymore. I think the story was the guy was super appreciative, offered to give my buddy a 10-15% final sales price commission for his time for helping him show and sell the car while he was in BC, so my buddy asked him what the price was to sell to him instead.

Another friend, because he didn't need to move right away, offered to let the family stay for a few months with inexpensive rent as somehow it was mentioned by the seller realtor they were going to move to temporary accommodations for a few months after the possession date. Considering that it would have been less moving and storage costs, more time to pack, less mortgage/expenses other than rent etc. while the other home they bought became available (possession date), it was a good idea. The family was surprised and really wanted to take him up on the offer, but afterwards couldn't take him up on the offer (stored some stuff at the place in the garage for a few months though) because they couldn't break the deal with the accommodations they had already arranged for.


And anyone who wants to try and squeeze a few extra bucks out of selling your home, clean the floor of the garage till it's basically as clean as the kitchen floor. All it'll cost you is a little bit of time and a bit of vacuuming and it makes a ridiculously huge difference in impression. Lots of homes have pristine interior, dusty ass garages. It's just a tiny way to stick out a little more and give an impression that the home is super well kept (kinda like how you can tell how a restaurant kitchen is probably run based on the cleanliness of the bathroom).

[Voodooman]

We just sold our house in an inner city neighbourhood, and had much the same experience as jwslam. In the sub $500K price point, listed on a Thursday, and had 6 viewings that evening. One buyer called and asked what it would take to close it that evening. We considered, but decided to wait it out. Next morning, got a weak bully offer of $10K over asking, with 8 hours to respond. We said no, and invited them to resubmit.

Our agent advised we were reviewing offers on Saturday, had multiple, went back to the best ones, and ended up selling well over asking. They did a visit, and then a home inspection, and asked for no adjustments. It's a heritage house, and the warts are apparent, so in the current market I wasn't open to any price reductions. I would have just gone back to the next buyer. The joys of selling in a hot market...

We might have gotten more, but in the end, it was over in 48 hours, and we are happy with the price we received. And that's all that matters...

[Regular_John]

Just from the perspective of writing an offer, I wouldn’t necessarily put a 4 hour window on it because I want the seller to feel pressured to sign, I’d put that 4 hour window on the offer to get a discussion going.

Like why write 24 hours into your offer so they can shop it around?

[you&me]

With so many posters listing their homes, I'm curious - what's the motivation? Are you upgrading? Downgrading?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by you&me

With so many posters listing their homes, I'm curious - what's the motivation? Are you upgrading? Downgrading?

We're selling and moving to Ontario and listing next week and it's going to be a hot market to do so in. Because we're going to Toronto we're technically going to have to "upgrade" (premium prices) even if the house itself could be a downgrade given the inventory. Either way, we're selling first then looking and buying.

And glad to be a hot market; this time next year may be a completely different ball game. Interest rates rose today I think and it likely won't be the only raise.

[Regular_John]

Originally Posted by you&me

With so many posters listing their homes, I'm curious - what's the motivation? Are you upgrading? Downgrading?

I posted earlier in this thread, but for us our neighbourhood never really suited our lifestyle, and the size of our place became more of an issue with two adults WFH.

Even assuming one/both of us will be back at work a few days a week, we’d still like to have a bigger place closer to downtown. So it was sort of a “this place wasn’t meeting our needs pre-pandemic, it’s really not meeting our needs post-pandemic”

[stampsx2]

Anyone know if new build prices have increased in the last few months? I’m wondering if that would be a better option. Technically no inspections required and maybe the house price is lower than a previously owned.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Anyone know if new build prices have increased in the last few months? I’m wondering if that would be a better option. Technically no inspections required and maybe the house price is lower than a previously owned.

Depending on builder I would say maybe no home inspections required.

We almost bought a new infill in Jan - home inspector came in and found that they had completely forgotten to install HVAC in half the rooms in the basement. We walked away as changing that is a PITA with painted/flat ceilings.

Right now, I talked to one custom builder and he said currently you can do a concrete build for the same price as lumber. So yes, costs are up.

[Voodooman]

Originally Posted by you&me

With so many posters listing their homes, I'm curious - what's the motivation? Are you upgrading? Downgrading?

Downgrading for the time being into a rental, and seriously contemplating leaving the province. Work has become 100% portable, and while I've lived here my whole life, I'm not sure I want to any longer in the current political climate. I'm not looking for a debate on that, I personally just don't like the direction this province is heading, and leaving is currently a very attractive option.

[jwslam]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I can guess knowing you have 17 showings and an above asking price offer, it would be easy to think you might have priced too low. Was that a strategy or did your realtor give any advice on that?

Realtor and I did research independently. Agreed to the listing price. I still think it's a fair price.

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Anyone know if new build prices have increased in the last few months? I’m wondering if that would be a better option. Technically no inspections required and maybe the house price is lower than a previously owned.

Builders I've been hearing about are in the +10% category now for lumber shortage.

Originally Posted by Voodooman

Our agent advised we were reviewing offers on Saturday, had multiple, went back to the best ones, and ended up selling well over asking. They did a visit, and then a home inspection, and asked for no adjustments. It's a heritage house, and the warts are apparent, so in the current market I wasn't open to any price reductions. I would have just gone back to the next buyer. The joys of selling in a hot market...

Agree that there's apparent warts in my house I'm selling. I don't wanna hear from the guy that his +$20k offer over list is now -$10k under list post inspection. Reasons are the fence falling over, a new roof required, the windows are original needing replacement, and the carpets all need to be replaced. Those are not things you need a home inspector to see on your behalf.

[rotten42]

Interesting market. I sold my place 1.5 years ago. The market was tough but I did manage to sell in under 2 months. Got a fair price. I'm sure I would get much more in today's environment.

I downsized into a new townhouse in my same community last October. The same model I have is now selling for $55k more than I paid for mine including upgrades.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Anyone know if new build prices have increased in the last few months? I’m wondering if that would be a better option. Technically no inspections required and maybe the house price is lower than a previously owned.

Just mentally calculate for 10s of thousands in landscaping, and whatever value you attach personally to mature trees (they do matter for resale).

In my personal experience, new doesn't mean no hassles. They can still have all sorts of super fun problems.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I don't think we want no home inspections becoming the norm here. I wouldn't even consider making an offer without stipulating an inspection.

Neither would I as I got an inspection done on the place we moved into.

Originally Posted by troutman

If there is no inspection, the seller still has to disclose any defects they are aware of.

What do you mean by defects? It's a used house. There's bound to be a few things that may require attention as it's the nature of owning a house. If the house has a roof leak or the furnace isn't working well yeah but I'm not going to say the windows may need to be replaced or the ice maker on the fridge sometimes goes on the fritz.

Originally Posted by DoubleF

This doesn't totally make sense. Many banks will refuse to finance without an inspection (hell, my mortgagors ate the cost of the inspection). But if you can get away without one, great. But also as others mentioned, the inspection is pretty superficial anyways.

It makes perfect sense to me because it happened.

[troutman]

https://www.reca.ca/consumers/proper...atent-defects/


A material latent defect is a physical defect that is not discernible through a reasonable inspection, and makes a property:

• dangerous or potentially dangerous to the occupants
• unfit to live in
• unfit for a buyer’s purpose, should that purpose be known to the sellers or by the industry professional

These are defects that may not be discoverable during a reasonable inspection of the property, even by a professional home inspector.


Material latent defects may also include:

• defects that would be very expensive to repair
• when a seller has received a notice from a local government or authority that something about the property must be fixed
• when the seller does not have appropriate building or other permits for the property

EX. the home was a former marijuana grow-op and the property hasn’t been remediated

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by troutman

https://www.reca.ca/consumers/proper...atent-defects/


A material latent defect is a physical defect that is not discernible through a reasonable inspection, and makes a property:

• dangerous or potentially dangerous to the occupants
• unfit to live in
• unfit for a buyer’s purpose, should that purpose be known to the sellers or by the industry professional

These are defects that may not be discoverable during a reasonable inspection of the property, even by a professional home inspector.


Material latent defects may also include:

• defects that would be very expensive to repair
• when a seller has received a notice from a local government or authority that something about the property must be fixed
• when the seller does not have appropriate building or other permits for the property

That's not a house as that's a dumpster fire. Safe to say that's not the typical house being sold in Calgary.

[Flamenspiel]

I have always used an inspector. To me if you have to forgo an inspector because it’s a hot market, you are following the crowd and maybe should not be buying at that time. All markets pause from time to time and there will always be another house, it’s not musical chairs.

An inspector(and a builder/architect) has always been a winner for me, 5-700 hundred usually results in thousands of dollars in savings. Even if you know the problem, the seller wants to see evidence of it.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That's not a house as that's a dumpster fire. Safe to say that's not the typical house being sold in Calgary.

I've see two homes just this month that were former grow-ops. Many homes have hidden defects that could be very expensive to repair.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by troutman

I've see two homes just this month that were former grow-ops. Many homes have hidden defects that could be very expensive to repair.

Buying a grow op would suck. I would assume a home inspector would be able to pick up on that. I have looked at more than a few houses that were just shoddy in general as I don't think Calgary homes are well made in general. I've seen places with slanted floors, many with bad drywall, junk appliances, etc as most houses in this city have a skeleton or two in the closet.

I'm not sure what the recourse is on a lot of this stuff though. For instance if you buy a place with a hot water tank that works fine but it's old and fails a month or two after moving in I don't think there's much you can do as stuff breaks down. Our place came with a wine cooler and the home inspector didn't catch it because you turn it on and it works but I found out after leaving it on all nigh that the thing was leaking water all over the floor. Not much you can do but get it fixed or a new one.

We weren't hiding anything. I knew the windows were eventually going to need replacement but they weren't leaking water or anything and it was more of an age thing. Our place was in considerably better condition than most places we looked at for ourselves so it wasn't really surprising we had offers the from the first people that looked at it and sold it the next day after as the place was getting booked for viewings like crazy for days.