Alberta Election Thread - Election Day April 16 2019

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

If you did the same exercise on every poster on this board, then published their worst post among hundreds and thousands of posts you would end up with similarly bad takes.

Speak for yourself.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

FYP. Another historical tweet story timed for today by Press Progress.

Tomorrow there will be another uncouth tweet from sometime in the past on another UCP candidate released, then another on Thursday, and so forth and so forth. If you did the same exercise on every poster on this board, then published their worst post among hundreds and thousands of posts you would end up with similarly bad takes.

Right,
that's why we are seeing these exact kind of posts and resignations from all the other parties. It sure is nice of the UCP to take the high road and not dig up he racist, misogynistic, and homophobic things all those NDP and Alberta Party candidates have said.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

FYP. Another historical tweet story timed for today by Press Progress.

Tomorrow there will be another uncouth tweet from sometime in the past on another UCP candidate released, then another on Thursday, and so forth and so forth. If you did the same exercise on every poster on this board, then published their worst post among hundreds and thousands of posts you would end up with similarly bad takes.

We aren't running for office though? People in power should be held to a higher standard.

[Flames0910]

However the problem with this argument is that all these people who currently work and pay for childcare don’t provide this benefit. There is no benefit from subsidizing someone who already chooses to work. So I’m general unless this program is specifically targeted and means tested it becomes an expensive way to get the desired benefit of more labour participation.

Alberta has the largest wage gap between men and women, the lowest proportion of dual earners, and the highest proportion of families with a stay at home parent of all provinces.

So there's evidence to suggest that women in Alberta are in fact choosing not to work because of the high cost of childcare.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../14202-eng.htm
https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...-the-workforce

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Burn13

I'm insinuating that some provinces can afford certain items in their budget that other provinces can't at the current timeframe. No matter Quebec or PEI etc. When you have money obviously you can create a wealth of social programs to benefit your province.

Why did you bring up Notley? Stop trying to hide your obvious agenda here.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Right,
that's why we are seeing these exact kind of posts and resignations from all the other parties. It sure is nice of the UCP to take the high road and not dig up he racist, misogynistic, and homophobic things all those NDP and Alberta Party candidates have said.

The NDP decided a long time ago this was the battlefield they were going to fight, probably collected all the information needed before the UCP got a chance to sanitize their candidate's online presence.

Also Press Progress isn't working hand in hand with Jason Kenney's campaign team so they aren't out there looking for uncouth tweets from NDP candidates, if there even are any after they probably sanitized their histories wherever possible well in advance of this campaign.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Burn13

Quebec just announced a $2.5B provincial surplus for 2018-19. Different then our situation.

They also will get $13.1 Billion in transfer payments from equalization. An increase of $1.4 Billion from the previous 3 yrs. Alberta will get ZERO for 2019-20. This is annually until 2021 when it is up for review again. Notley missed the review I guess this last July.

That a whole lot of different on what we can afford.

Can we quit with this lie that it’s equalizatiom that gives quebec better services. It’s not, it’s tax rate. Quebecs lowest tax rate is 15%. It’s highest starting at 100k in income is 25.75%.

Equalization is based on fiscal capacity at constant tax rates. If Alberta’s tax rates matched Quebec’s we could easily afford this program. In fact the daycare program. Now one could argue these high taxes are decreasing their fiscal capacity and their ability to expand and I certainly would be open to that argument though their corporate tax is less than ours.

The ability of Quebec to offer services that we might want is do to high taxes.

If you as an idvidual make 100k per year the tax difference between Quebec and Alberta is your Daycare subsidy.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Alberta has the largest wage gap between men and women, the lowest proportion of dual earners, and the the highest proportion of families with a stay at home parent.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../14202-eng.htm
https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...-the-workforce

Is there a check to see if the higher wages in Alberta contribute to this? Is it assumed everyone wants to work?

I mean the first note is dubious at best and the second 2 mean nothing without context.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

We aren't running for office though? People in power should be held to a higher standard.

Agreed to a point though. The current 'standards' with regards to referencing LGBTQ2+ issues have changed at light speed and in fact are typically defined in intersectionality terms that are constantly evolving, do not necessarily have good consensus and in a lot of cases are still quite debatable.

It almost an impossible standard to live up to that nothing anyone has ever said on any platform ever crosses whatever the current lines are and whatever future lines may be drawn. Oftentimes for conservatives the 'lines' are drawn by their very opponents in an election campaign. Honestly It was only the last few years that figures such as Barak Obama, Hilary Clinton, and others on the left came out in support of gay marriage.

Here's Sandra Jansen, Former NDP cabinet minister tying herself in knots for being one of the PC cabinet ministers behind the original introduction of Bill 10, when it was no longer politically expedient for her after the election loss in 2015.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2233181/i...a-legislation/

[Hockeyguy15]

There is a difference between saying something in the past, owning up to it and saying your views have changed and having some actions to back that up vs. saying stuff in the past and having the same opinion currently.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

There is a difference between saying something in the past, owning up to it and saying your views have changed and having some actions to back that up vs. saying stuff in the past and having the same opinion currently.

Has any of the UCP candidate that have been exposed said "I was wrong" and those words do not reflect who they are today?

Seems like most of them are blaming external factors, "smear" campaigns and/or the current government for their "predicaments".

[Oling_Roachinen]

She was "concerned about being censored." These are her current views, not her past regrettable actions and opinion.

[Flames0910]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Is there a check to see if the higher wages in Alberta contribute to this? Is it assumed everyone wants to work?

Yes, the consensus seems to be that this is in part due to higher wages. From the article..

In 2014, the median family income in Alberta was $97,000, the highest of any province. Much of that income came from men’s wages in our resource-based economy. Many jobs in this sector require long shifts, and many of these employees work away from home for weeks at a time.

One mother I spoke to about this issue summed up this phenomenon by describing herself as a “married single parent with a big pay cheque.”

This “married single mom” status is common among women whose spouses work in the oilpatch. These women are responsible for caring for kids, getting them to school, or piano, or soccer, volunteering for little league and getting kids to the dentist, all on their own. With little to no additional support for unpaid care and household responsibilities, many see no other option than to leave the workforce.

https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...-the-workforce

I mean the first note is dubious at best and the second 2 mean nothing without context.

It's dubious that Alberta has a larger male-female wage gap than any other province in Canada? For all our wealth, we've still got a 42% gap between men and women in this province. Even the maritimes are doing better! Does that strike you as fair? How is that "dubious"?

And wage gaps are largely considered to be a motherhood penalty - there's a study from Denmark that found that 80% of the wage gap can be explained by child bearing.
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/170183...ldcare-penalty

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The NDP decided a long time ago this was the battlefield they were going to fight, probably collected all the information needed before the UCP got a chance to sanitize their candidate's online presence.

Also Press Progress isn't working hand in hand with Jason Kenney's campaign team so they aren't out there looking for uncouth tweets from NDP candidates, if there even are any after they probably sanitized their histories wherever possible well in advance of this campaign.

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Agreed to a point though. The current 'standards' with regards to referencing LGBTQ2+ issues have changed at light speed and in fact are typically defined in intersectionality terms that are constantly evolving, do not necessarily have good consensus and in a lot of cases are still quite debatable.

It almost an impossible standard to live up to that nothing anyone has ever said on any platform ever crosses whatever the current lines are and whatever future lines may be drawn. Oftentimes for conservatives the 'lines' are drawn by their very opponents in an election campaign. Honestly It was only the last few years that figures such as Barak Obama, Hilary Clinton, and others on the left came out in support of gay marriage.

Here's Sandra Jansen, Former NDP cabinet minister tying herself in knots for being one of the PC cabinet ministers behind the original introduction of Bill 10, when it was no longer politically expedient for her after the election loss in 2015.

https://globalnews.ca/news/2233181/i...a-legislation/

Right. So you're going with the UCP wouldn't do this sort of digging, and the NDP are better at covering their tracks?

Have you ever worked on a campaign? I can tell you with 100% certainty that all parties do this kind of digging.

Also, sure I'll give you the LGBTQ issue has changed rapidly in the last decade. I myself have changed my views on it, and I'm willing to own up to that truth. However my actions currently make it pretty clear where I stand, and I'm most certainly not going to have to censor any posts I've made recently in that regard.

That being said, can you tell me how the views on white nationalism have changed recently?
I thought that one was put to bed pretty handily about 70 years ago, but I could be wrong? Did I miss something? Was it okay to make those remarks okay in 2017 when Caylan Ford made them? If so, I'll concede the point.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Yes, the consensus seems to be that this is in part due to higher wages. From the article..



https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...-the-workforce


It's dubious that Alberta has a larger male-female wage gap than any other province in Canada? For all our wealth, we've still got a 42% gap between men and women in this province. Even the maritimes are doing better! Does that strike you as fair? How is that "dubious"?

And wage gaps are largely considered to be a motherhood penalty - there's a study from Denmark that found that 80% of the wage gap can be explained by child bearing.
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/170183...ldcare-penalty

Using that lens to define our economy is completely dubious and reckless.

This is the 'diversified Manitoba economy' > 'undversified Alberta economy' argument playing out in in the gender sphere. If you double tapped the oil and gas sector behind the shed you would make Alberta massively poorer, but you would 'close the gender gap' because all those male-dominated field jobs would be gone. Alberta is most certainly not better off for that.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

It's dubious that Alberta has a larger male-female wage gap than any other province in Canada? For all our wealth, we've still got a 42% gap between men and women in this province. Even the maritimes are doing better! Does that strike you as fair? How is that "dubious"?

And wage gaps are largely considered to be a motherhood penalty - there's a study from Denmark that found that 80% of the wage gap can be explained by child bearing.
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/170183...ldcare-penalty

Hasn't apples to apples comparisons of wage in 2019 been pretty bang on these days? Thats where my dubious claim comes from.

I know there was a study on Uber about the wage gap and when broken down to an 'apples to apples' comparison it was essentially equal.

If you are going to take all females and all males and average out and not get the same... I mean there is lots to unpack there.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Alberta has the largest wage gap between men and women, the lowest proportion of dual earners, and the highest proportion of families with a stay at home parent of all provinces.

So there's evidence to suggest that women in Alberta are in fact choosing not to work because of the high cost of childcare.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../14202-eng.htm
https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...-the-workforce

That's a big assumption you're making. As I noted earlier, most mothers say they would prefer to work less and spend more time at home. Alberta's higher rate of stay-at-home moms may well be due to high wages for traditionally male jobs in the province affording more families the luxury of having a mom stay home.

I've noticed at the places I work that few of the wives of the male executives have jobs. And I'm no executive, but my wife works .8 of full-time. If I got a significant raise, she would happily cut back to .6. Our income is pooled, so she regards +20k for me as essentially the same as +20k for her. And since we more than meet our basic needs, she would prefer to convert any extra family income into reduced time at work for her. I'm sure many other families make that same calculation.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Yes, the consensus seems to be that this is in part due to higher wages. From the article..



https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...-the-workforce


It's dubious that Alberta has a larger male-female wage gap than any other province in Canada? For all our wealth, we've still got a 42% gap between men and women in this province. Even the maritimes are doing better! Does that strike you as fair? How is that "dubious"?

And wage gaps are largely considered to be a motherhood penalty - there's a study from Denmark that found that 80% of the wage gap can be explained by child bearing.
https://www.vox.com/2018/2/19/170183...ldcare-penalty

And I think that same study indicates a female-female mother wage gap as well? The reality is that women who become mothers have an earnings decline that men and women who do not have children do not have. It’s not dubious or misogynistic. It’s biology in a lot of cases.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Right. So you're going with the UCP wouldn't do this sort of digging, and the NDP are better at covering their tracks?

Have you ever worked on a campaign? I can tell you with 100% certainty that all parties do this kind of digging.

Also, sure I'll give you the LGBTQ issue has changed rapidly in the last decade. I myself have changed my views on it, and I'm willing to own up to that truth. However my actions currently make it pretty clear where I stand, and I'm most certainly not going to have to censor any posts I've made recently in that regard.

That being said, can you tell me how the views on white nationalism have changed recently?
I thought that one was put to bed pretty handily about 70 years ago, but I could be wrong? Did I miss something? Was it okay to make those remarks okay in 2017 when Caylan Ford made them? If so, I'll concede the point.

1) I have worked on a campaign actually. I wasn't insinuating that the UCP wasn't investigating NDP candidates online past, just that clearly there was one party that decided to make this their battleground and define what's acceptable on their own terms. They benefit greatly from this advantage in this battleground.

2) I'm not going to defend white nationalism period.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Flames0910

Alberta has the largest wage gap between men and women, the lowest proportion of dual earners, and the highest proportion of families with a stay at home parent of all provinces.

So there's evidence to suggest that women in Alberta are in fact choosing not to work because of the high cost of childcare.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../14202-eng.htm
https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...-the-workforce

Is it not possible that women earn less than men because they aren’t going into post secondary fields that pay higher? How many women take engineering or programming? From what i’ve seen it’s a small portion.

Should men be offended that there aren’t enough male nurses? Why are women getting all the nursing jobs? Sexism for sure, right?

Women can do just as good a job or better than men. If there aren’t a lot of women in a certain proffession, chances are they chose not to - welding.