Elliot Friedman believes Treliving may not be back next season

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

I don't think vets get a pass during the regular season and then only have to show up in the playoffs. You have to get to the postseason in the first place.

Brouwer has been a limp noodle since day 1 of the season. Pretty much a no show. You can't even defend him saying "well he's on pace for his typical 20 goal, 35 to 45 point season" because he's on pace for 13 goals and 29 points. When this guy was brought in and it was criticized for paying him 4.5M until he's 34 and was defended saying it's the intangibles he brings. I don't know - I don't see it. I just can't believe STL gave up Oshie for him. I mean Ya maybe he brings it a little more during the playoffs but guess what - you have to make it there first.

I didn't get this signing from day 1 and still don't. Why not wait or make a different move for an actual top 6 RW.

Being on pace for 29 points in the first year of a new contract is within the margin of error for a player like this though - he's a 30-40 point player.

I get that he doesn't get a pass, but at the same time, it's undeniable his value is more appreciable in the post season. He's basically Joel Ward - their career numbers are nearly identical, and Troy's six years younger. Nobody in San Jose would tell you Joel Ward wasn't essential to the Sharks success last year.

You hope he turns it around - Frolik had a pretty underwhelming first year here too.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Byron wasn't traded. He was lost on waivers.

Also, yeah, yeah, Bollig was traded for a 3rd. The guy who Chicago picked? Matheson Iacopelli, some guy with underwhelming stats in the USHL. Bollig scored a big playoff goal in Game 3 against the Ducks. Call me if Matheson Iacopelli ever does that.

I get that Bollig was by-and-large useless, but he actually contributed to this team's success.

Iacopelli is tied for 16th in goals in all NCAA and is only a sophomore (and leads Western Michigan in scoring).

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

Didn't Treliving learn everything from Mahoney? If Mahoney is the replacement I don't think it would be that bad.

Voted yes.

Everyone loves Steve Guttenberg.

The Fionn Daly signing reinforces and puts it over the top,

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Iacopelli is tied for 16th in goals in all NCAA and is only a sophomore (and leads Western Michigan in scoring).

He's a 22 year old sophomore.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Byron wasn't traded. He was lost on waivers.

Isn't that worse?

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Who Chicago drafted in the 3rd round is irrelevant. What's relevant is who the Flames would've drafted, but we won't know because it was traded away for a guy who not only can't crack the line-up, but also caused Byron to be waived. Had Treliving not traded for Bollig (or had someone in him warming a spot in the Flames line-up), the Flames wouldn't have waived Byron.

Obviously the Flames have a far better track record of drafting/developing than the Blackhawks

Iacopelli was picked 83rd. Nobody until #112 (Arvidsson) has scored an NHL point. #126, 171 and 205 also have points. Two other players have played NHL games. Obviously it's still way too early to judge the draft, but the odds of pick #83 turning into more than Bollig are low.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Isn't that worse?

Yes and no. Byron didn't need to be waived. Management wanted to waive him to give them flexibility. He could have passed through too, if the Kassian incident had not happened, or it happened a few days later. He was waived along side Mason Raymond.

You have to keep in mind, Byron was being held together with Popsicle sticks and duct tape when he was waived. It was sorta like a conditioning stint. IIRC Byron didn't play for weeks after he was claimed off waivers. He was that badly injured.

Maybe you could make a case for Bollig over Byron, but a healthy Bollig does not deserve a waiving over a badly injured Byron who needed some time to get back to game speed. IMO, management made a reasonable decision. They just hit bad luck on a low risk move. Would they love a mulligan on that move? Probably. Hindsight is 20/20.

Low risk doesn't mean no risk.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Being on pace for 29 points in the first year of a new contract is within the margin of error for a player like this though - he's a 30-40 point player.

I get that he doesn't get a pass, but at the same time, it's undeniable his value is more appreciable in the post season. He's basically Joel Ward - their career numbers are nearly identical, and Troy's six years younger. Nobody in San Jose would tell you Joel Ward wasn't essential to the Sharks success last year.

You hope he turns it around - Frolik had a pretty underwhelming first year here too.

Is Brouwer that much of a playoff performer though? Aside from a good postseason last year his numbers aren't very good. He's got lots of playoff experience but who wouldn't playing most of your career on Chicago and Washington. I hope he bounces back too, I just think we could have put that 4.5M towards someone else.

And Frolik was fine last season - had some injury troubles and still managed .5 ppg in a shutdown role.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

Is Brouwer that much of a playoff performer though? Aside from a good postseason last year his numbers aren't very good. He's got lots of playoff experience but who wouldn't playing most of your career on Chicago and Washington. I hope he bounces back too, I just think we could have put that 4.5M towards someone else.

And Frolik was fine last season - had some injury troubles and still managed .5 ppg in a shutdown role.

Who else would you have put that 4.5M towards?

C Helm 3.85 x5
RW Ladd 5.5 x7
LW Lucic 6 x7
C Nielsen 5.25 x6
LW Perron 3.75 x2
C Backes 6 x5
RW Eriksson 6 x6
RW Okposo 6 x7
RW Brouwer 4.5 x4
C Staal 3.5 x3
LW McGinn 3.3 x3
LW Boedker 4 x4


The list goes on but massively overpaying for slightly better players (50-60pts in Ladd and Okposo) is something I'm glad we avoided. You could point to players like Perron and Radulov as signing some great contracts but chances are they went to those teams specifically.

Given the context of how last season went, the weaknesses we had was getting another top 6 RW and Brouwer has been consistently a guy who could play throughout the top 9 while providing physicality and leadership. Like Elliot, it was a move that hasn't paid off but easy to fault it given the short time frame.

[18YrOldSamBennett]

The Eric Staal signing is also a very good value signing. No one saw it coming but if Treliving signed him instead of Brouwer we would be singing a very different tune right now. We would have a line of Bennett - Staal - Versteeg instead of Brouwer - Bennett - Versteeg.

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by 18YrOldSamBennett

The Eric Staal signing is also a very good value signing. No one saw it coming but if Treliving signed him instead of Brouwer we would be singing a very different tune right now. We would have a line of Bennett - Staal - Versteeg instead of Brouwer - Bennett - Versteeg.

Would Staal be the same player here he is in Minnesota? Playing for Gulutzan rather than Boudreau?

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Yes and no. Byron didn't need to be waived. Management wanted to waive him to give them flexibility. He could have passed through too, if the Kassian incident had not happened, or it happened a few days later. He was waived along side Mason Raymond.

You have to keep in mind, Byron was being held together with Popsicle sticks and duct tape when he was waived. It was sorta like a conditioning stint. IIRC Byron didn't play for weeks after he was claimed off waivers. He was that badly injured.

Maybe you could make a case for Bollig over Byron, but a healthy Bollig does not deserve a waiving over a badly injured Byron who needed some time to get back to game speed. IMO, management made a reasonable decision. They just hit bad luck on a low risk move. Would they love a mulligan on that move? Probably. Hindsight is 20/20.

Low risk doesn't mean no risk.

Analyzing how the team managed the Bollig's and Raymond's and yes, even Byron's of the our roster the past few years is such a waste of time. Sure we can figure out whether they could have optimized the decison, and even might be able to figure out a better way it could have been done.

But in the end, it doesn't matter, it makes no difference, it's mice nuts. If this team doesn't make the playoffs this year, it will have 0 to do with the fact Byron isn't here, or Raymond was waived etc... These are fringe moves, and this team is far away from fringe moves being the difference right now. Maybe in a couple of years, bur right now, we aren't not winning the cup this year because BT didn't make the right minor moves with the roster. We are still in core building and key piece building mode, not tweaks and tinker mode.

[18YrOldSamBennett]

Originally Posted by Ruttiger

Would Staal be the same player here he is in Minnesota? Playing for Gulutzan rather than Boudreau?

We will never know.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Ruttiger

Would Staal be the same player here he is in Minnesota? Playing for Gulutzan rather than Boudreau?

Unlikely. Many players having career years in Minnesota, and it's likely no coincidence.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Unlikely. Many players having career years in Minnesota, and it's likely no coincidence.

Yeah I don't think anyone should be surprised about what's going on in Minnesota.

[Ruttiger]

Originally Posted by 18YrOldSamBennett

We will never know.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

I think we can make a pretty educated guess.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Given the context of how last season went, the weaknesses we had was getting another top 6 RW and Brouwer has been consistently a guy who could play throughout the top 9 while providing physicality and leadership. Like Elliot, it was a move that hasn't paid off but easy to fault it given the short time frame.

Yep. The Flames had a huge hole on RW and no candidate to fill it internally. And trades hardly happen at all in this league anymore, let alone the kind of magic bean trades fans dream of. That leaves free agency as the route to improving the roster. And that almost always means overpaying. It's the nature of the beast.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Who else would you have put that 4.5M towards?

C Helm 3.85 x5
RW Ladd 5.5 x7
LW Lucic 6 x7
C Nielsen 5.25 x6
LW Perron 3.75 x2
C Backes 6 x5
RW Eriksson 6 x6
RW Okposo 6 x7
RW Brouwer 4.5 x4
C Staal 3.5 x3
LW McGinn 3.3 x3
LW Boedker 4 x4


The list goes on but massively overpaying for slightly better players (50-60pts in Ladd and Okposo) is something I'm glad we avoided. You could point to players like Perron and Radulov as signing some great contracts but chances are they went to those teams specifically.

Given the context of how last season went, the weaknesses we had was getting another top 6 RW and Brouwer has been consistently a guy who could play throughout the top 9 while providing physicality and leadership. Like Elliot, it was a move that hasn't paid off but easy to fault it given the short time frame.

Just because you have cap room doesn't mean you have to go out and spend all of it that offseason. You pay a premium for UFAs, that will never change. I just don't like the overpayment on a depth RW on a contender. Now we have almost 9M tied up in your 2nd and 3rd line RW. The 4.5 could have been used this summer to go after a #4 D and something else could have been done to try and fill the #1 RW and #3 RW. I think he will have a bounce back second half but this is as good as it gets as far as where he is in his career. This one deal isn't going to make or break the Cap and this team needs leadership but there are cheaper options for a 3rd line RW.

[Samonadreau]

The reason we are in RW troubles is due to drafting and development. We havent been unable to produced anybody in our top 9 Rw internally and that's the problem.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

The reason we are in RW troubles is due to drafting and development. We havent been unable to produced anybody in our top 9 Rw internally and that's the problem.

I would agree, although I would say given the state of this team's prospect pool when this team started this rebuild I would not say it's an indication of poor drafting or development yet (it could be if we fail to address the issue over a few more years). Especially when you consider they success they've had filling other rolls with recent draft picks.

More an indication that the problem was very very deep when this team entered the rebuild due to the futile win now mode and throw everything at the wall to try and make it work this team got into before finally starting this rebuild. And you can only fill so many roster gaps in a certain amount of time when you are pretty much starting from scratch.

[jayswin]

So could the Flames step up at this point and just sign that contract?