2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by neo45

I've heard stories about Hudler and he sounds like a hilarious fun loving guy. Holland and Babcock probably couldn't handle how he actually had a personality and didn't live and breathe hockey

So have I. And they're not good, but he was younger back then too.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

Have you ever been to Calgary? We're smack dab at the base of the foothills, which lead to a little know mountain range a mere 50ish minutes away. Calgary is one of the wealthiest cities in Canada and boasts a higher standard of living than most of the cities which host NHL franchises...

Furthermore, you keep saying "there was a reason" hudler was a 3rd liners, didn't make the olympic team, etc. Care to share what that reason is?

Also, it is not acceptable to sit here and compare Kessel as a player vs. Hudler as a player, because we live in a cap world. You have to look at the big picture which is Kessel as a player on his contract, and Hudler as a player on his contract. When you start adding everything up together, their trade values might be a lot closer than you would like. Just the reality of the business in a cap system, and sadly for your sake, Kessel's contract is very long term wise, making it a huge risk to trade for him, and therefore, lowering his trade value.

yep, born and raised Calgarian. I've also lived in Vancovuer and Toronto for +/- four years each. I know each city very well. More than most.

I don't know what those reasons are, but people who will forget more about hockey than you or I will ever know seem to agree with the way I see things. Mike Babcock and Ken Holland to name two. If Hudler was as good as some like to make him out to be here, no way would the Red Wings have let him walk. for no return noless. Hudler is a nice piece, but if you think (after a career season at 31) the Flames shouldn't investigate shopping him now, you're not paying attention. There are a lot more rumors about trading Hudler than there are of signing him to a contract extension. A year from now, he's in another jersey.

Comparing Kessel and Hudler is not a great comparison as you have pointed out. My point is, it is baffling/hilarious how predicatable some hockey fans are. Of course Phil Kessel is garbage, he plays for the Leafs! therefore he has to suck and those moronic leafs will have to trade him for hopefully next to nothing just to get rid of his contract......right? Hudler is awesome and Kessel sucks. right?

fact is Kessel is 27 years old, is rarely/never hurt and is one of the premier goal scorers in the league. how many guys, for the next five years, are as good as bet as there is to score 35-40 goals on average? Ovechkin, Stamkos, Seguin, Tarasenko (do we know yet?), Crosby (health?)......and contrary to what some have said here, I don't see how/why the Leafs should be desperate to trade him. They have nothing but time. If they're not getting the bites they want, they can sit on it and revisit later. Kessels value isn't dimishing anytime soon, while Hudler's will.

[Erick Estrada]

Kessel is a better player than Hudler and is worth more in a trade but it's really hard to move contracts like his in this day and age as maybe the best team fit for Kessel can't fit in his contract and the teams that can fit his contract aren't a good fit. It's a trade that's going to take some time and I don't think the Leafs will hit a home run on the return when all is said and done but you can argue the team that trades for Kessel will be the big loser in the back half of that deal as if Kessel isn't scoring he's a negative value player as you really have to be careful with one dimensional players as the Hurricanes have found out with Semin.

[Dienasty]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Look, I get it. Flames fans are head over heals with their team. No one can do no wrong and they're all a bunch of winners destined for a meteoric rise to greatness.

but lets take a good look at the reality of the situation here. There is a reason why Jiri Hudler was a 3rd liner on the Red Wings. There is a reason why the Wings chose not to prioritize him as an asset and let him go. There is a reason why Hudler has been passed over for the Czech team numerous times. There is a reason why, when he hit free agency, he signed with the then lowly Flames (not a lot of guys were eager to sign with a losing fanchise smack dab in the Canadian prairie ie pretty freaking low on the destination chart).

but things have gone well for Hudler here, and good on him. but smoke and mirrors aside Hudler is not a legitimate top line player on a contending team. Top six, maybe. He's a nice piece, but that's about it.

Kessel on the other hand is 4 years younger, taller, bigger, more dangerous, has better counting stats, and despite the fact he plays for the leafs (and therefore sucks in the eyes of some) is somehow precieved to be of lesser value. Kessel just scored 25 on one of the worst teams in the league with Tyler Bozak as his center on an 'off' year. Hudler has scored more than 25 once. What's Kessel going to do on a legitmate top line with a high end play maker? 50 goals 90 pts?

I don't think 'desperate' is the appropriate word regarding the leafs desire to trade Kessel. They're interested in trading him because the assets he can fetch the leafs at this point in time is more valuble to this particular team right now and moving forward. No different than Iginla was to the Flames. Only difference is the Flames held on to Iggy 2-3 years longer than they should have for a variety of reasons.

The Flames should be shopping Hudler and try to cash in on his success. But the Leafs will get more for their asset than the Flames will. A lot more.

There is a reason Boston didn't prioritize kessel and why he now finds his name on the trading block... Not to mention why would kessel sign a contract with one of the 5 worst teams with the most annoying media, and fans throw their own jerseys on the ice. Not high on the destination list. See I can do that too.

Kessel is an elite offensive player but, his d zone coverage is garbage, he has 0 leadership, just signed a ridiculous contract, is coming off his worst season has a pro, and has a physique of the pillsbury doughboy. Would I take a risk on him? Probably not unless Toronto ate a chunk of that contract, that lasts into his mid to late 30's.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by saillias

Did you really just try to educate us on our top scorer for the past 3 years? Your there's a reason speech doesn't pass the sniff test, sorry. Try using facts.

this is good stuff.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

There is a reason Boston didn't prioritize kessel and why he now finds his name on the trading block... Not to mention why would kessel sign a contract with one of the 5 worst teams with the most annoying media, and fans throw their own jerseys on the ice. Not high on the destination list. See I can do that too.

Kessel is an elite offensive player but, his d zone coverage is garbage, he has 0 leadership, just signed a ridiculous contract, is coming off his worst season has a pro, and has a physique of the pillsbury doughboy. Would I take a risk on him? Probably not unless Toronto ate a chunk of that contract, that lasts into his mid to late 30's.

uh, I think Boston did ok in the way they handled their asset in that situation, no?

Ever been/lived in Toronto? Quite a few real good reasons to want to live there.

the second paragraph is nothing more than dribble. what do you know about kessels d-zone coverage? are you a coach/scout intently watching him every second he's o the ice, or do you just catch the highlights? I bet the later. His worst season as a pro is better than each of Hudler's aside from two. TWO! What do you know about Kessel's conditioning aside from what is said in the media? you don't think what gets out/is said infront of microphones/camera's isn't intentional? He may have some work do to, but hey, Sam Bennet couldn't do a pull up. Wayne Gretzky looked closer to a teenager than he ever did a professional athlete. Eric Lindros was a physical specimen at 245 lbs and 8% body fat......point is, who cares? If Kessel is scoring 35-40 goals a year and the team is winning, no one will be complaining about his conditioning. Further, how many games has Phil missed due to injury/lack of conditioning over the past 5 years? ....wait for it.....None!

[Poe969]

Kessel is an elite offensive player in the NHL, he just has a horrible contract. He could probably be traded with the leafs not retaining any of his contract but it would be tough. The more the leafs retain, the more teams will be interested and the more of a return he'd bring back in a trade. If his contract was a million dollars less per season and a couple years shorter, they'd get an amazing return. It isn't.

Kessel will be traded, and most likely this week. The biggest issue in the whole trade scenario isn't Kessel's value because everyone knows he is an offensive talent in this league. The issue is his contract so the pressure is all on the leafs because they have to retain more of his salary to get more of a return. It's unfortunate for them that they have to pay for their previous mistakes but they will have to if they want to get a decent return.

To be honest, if the leafs retained 50% of his salary (I know it won't happen, don't get upset, just an example), I would love to have him on the Flames. At his full contract I don't want him anywhere near the team. Everything is in the leafs hands at this point, how much do they want to admit that his contract was a mistake that they'll have to pay for? They won't really come out of this looking good because they'll either have to take back a lot of his contract and have a cap hit for the duration of his contract OR they'll have to take back a lot less than Kessel's market value in order to rid themselves of his contract.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Kessel is a better player than Hudler and is worth more in a trade but it's really hard to move contracts like his in this day and age as maybe the best team fit for Kessel can't fit in his contract and the teams that can fit his contract aren't a good fit. It's a trade that's going to take some time and I don't think the Leafs will hit a home run on the return when all is said and done but you can argue the team that trades for Kessel will be the big loser in the back half of that deal as if Kessel isn't scoring he's a negative value player as you really have to be careful with one dimensional players as the Hurricanes have found out with Semin.

agree, but Kessel will be/is a better player than Semin.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by TOfan

uh, I think Boston did ok in the way they handled their asset in that situation, no?

Ever been/lived in Toronto? Quite a few real good reasons to want to live there.

the second paragraph is nothing more than dribble. what do you know about kessels d-zone coverage? are you a coach/scout intently watching him every second he's o the ice, or do you just catch the highlights? I bet the later. His worst season as a pro is better than each of Hudler's aside from two. TWO! What do you know about Kessel's conditioning aside from what is said in the media? you don't think what gets out/is said infront of microphones/camera's isn't intentional? He may have some work do to, but hey, Sam Bennet couldn't do a pull up. Wayne Gretzky looked closer to a teenager than he ever did a professional athlete. Eric Lindros was a physical specimen at 245 lbs and 8% body fat......point is, who cares? If Kessel is scoring 35-40 goals a year and the team is winning, no one will be complaining about his conditioning. Further, how many games has Phil missed due to injury/lack of conditioning over the past 5 years? ....wait for it.....None!

Not to nitpick but Sam Bennett had a bad shoulder.

[GioforPM]

I do agree Kessel is bigger than Hudler.

What's Kessel gonna do with a better centre? Probably make that centre's plus minus drop like crazy.

[GioforPM]

Btw, drivel, not dribble.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I do agree Kessel is bigger than Hudler.

What's Kessel gonna do with a better centre? Probably make that centre's plus minus drop like crazy.

or score 50.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by heep223

Not to nitpick but Sam Bennett had a bad shoulder.

I know. But if there is one thing a player can change, it's his conditioning. anyone can learn to run faster/lift heavier get their six pack.

not everyone can score 35 goals a year (on average). In fact, it's rare. That kind of productivity comes at a premium.

[Coach]

I'm curious where this 35-40 goal average comes from that TO fans always seems to dig up. Doing some quick math, his average across his career is 30.63 and over the last 5 years is 32. Pretty darn good no doubt, but not sure how that average gets pushed by 5-10 goals.

I also don't think the TO fans seem to understand that we all watch the Leafs. We don't really have a choice.

Not even for free. We already have average 35 goal scorer in Monahan and 30 goal scorer Gaudreau. And another 40 from Hudler we should be all set without Kessel.

[kehatch]

Hudler's point per game each season to date: 0.37, 0.52, 0.7, 0.51, 0.62, 0.67, 0.64, 0.72, 0.97.

I really like the guy. But one of those numbers doesn't belong. Not for a 30+ year old in his 9 full season.

No comment on Kessel. But I think some might be over valuing Hudler's trade value.

[ClubFlames]

Originally Posted by MattyC

We already have average 35 goal scorer in Monahan and 30 goal scorer Gaudreau. And another 40 from Hudler we should be all set without Kessel.

Lol, if Kessel can score an average of 40 goals with a centre like Bozak he can score 105 goals with a centre like Crosby who is atleast 3 times better than Bozak right? Logic.

[handgroen]

Originally Posted by TOfan

agree, but Kessel will be/is a better player than Semin.

seriously, kessel isn't coming. it's been thoroughly discussed already. this is clearly just your axe to grind. maybe you can ask siri what kessel's trade value is and argue with her.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Hudler's point per game each season to date: 0.37, 0.52, 0.7, 0.51, 0.62, 0.67, 0.64, 0.72, 0.97.

I really like the guy. But one of those numbers doesn't belong. Not for a 30+ year old in his 9 full season.

More ice time and better linemates couldn't have anything to do with this, could it?

[ClubFlames]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Hudler's point per game each season to date: 0.37, 0.52, 0.7, 0.51, 0.62, 0.67, 0.64, 0.72, 0.97.

I really like the guy. But one of those numbers doesn't belong. Not for a 30+ year old in his 9 full season.

No comment on Kessel. But I think some might be over valuing Hudler's trade value.

I don't think we are over valuing Hudler's value, we just see his on-ice points total but the off-ice contributions he has made are invaluable. He is one of those players who means more to our team than he will to a team like say, Pittsburgh or Chicago but if he gets traded to for example, Buffalo or Edmonton (yuck) he can have a huge impact on their young players and plus he knows what it takes to win.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by codynw

More ice time and better linemates couldn't have anything to do with this, could it?

He saw his ice time drop this season. He has played with great players like Zetterberg and Iginla in the past.

But that's moot. The point is you are trying to trade him like he has the value of being a point per game player. He isn't.