[News] Kevin Hayes signs with the Rangers

[Lanny_McDonald]

Would Glencross waive to go to Chicago? Boy, does that sound silly to ask.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by New Era

Would Glencross waive to go to Chicago? Boy, does that sound silly to ask.

It sounds silly, but by all accounts he's adamant he wants to stay near the ranch.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Fire

Maybe the Flames offer to take Oduya in exchange for a 3rd rounder and then deal him back to the Hawks at the deadline for 2nd rounder. The Flames would also eat 50% of his remaining salary. Probably too risky for what could only be a small improvement in draft position.

Not allowed in the CBA

edit: well at least the eating salary part of it

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

35 year old Hossa, whose contract runs until the end of time, would be a bit of a salary dump. Hossa & the rights to Hayes for Glencross might be the basis of a good deal for both teams. According to capgeek Hossa doesn't have a NMC. That move alone would get them out of cap trouble (for now) but it would keep them vaguely competitive.

That's more than a bit of a cap dump. Hossa's will be a hard contract to get rid of, the way it is structured. Buyout is almost full value.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by New Era

Brad Stuart was moved as a salary dump?

No, but everyone knew that Doug Wilson was desperate to move out players to start a culture change.

Still got decent value for Stuart.

Regardless of Chicago's cap situation, almost all their players have good value relative to their contracts, and while teams won't be rushing to help them out, their first and most pressing concern is their own team. Combine that with a bidding war and they will still get good value.

Hell even Bollig got a 3rd, and Chicago was over the cap at the time of the trade.

[FlameZilla]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

That's more than a bit of a cap dump. Hossa's will be a hard contract to get rid of, the way it is structured. Buyout is almost full value.

If he was traded, played a couple of seasons and then retired would the Blackhawks be punished for cap circumvention or would it be the team that acquired him? The contract runs until he's 42...

Hossa still has a few years of hockey left in him. Plays RW. Scored 30 goals last season. He would be a very good veteran presence to have around the kids. He's a big name, still playing well, so he wouldn't purely be a cap dump. A sort of pre-emptive dump, so to speak

The other players the Hawks have been reportedly shopping are Sharp & Oduya. I doubt the Sharp rumours are true, but Oduya makes sense (although I would have little interest in him). Leddy is a pipe dream because his cap hit is very reasonable.

Hossa makes the most sense to me. If we could get the rights to Hayes thrown in and then pick up Jeremy Morin off of waivers then we'd be laughing...

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

It sounds silly, but by all accounts he's adamant he wants to stay near the ranch.

Hopefully he waives it go to playoffs for couple of months. We get something and can promise to sign him back when the season ends,

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

No, but everyone knew that Doug Wilson was desperate to move out players to start a culture change.

Still got decent value for Stuart.

Regardless of Chicago's cap situation, almost all their players have good value relative to their contracts, and while teams won't be rushing to help them out, their first and most pressing concern is their own team. Combine that with a bidding war and they will still get good value.

Hell even Bollig got a 3rd, and Chicago was over the cap at the time of the trade.

Exactly. Teams are more concerned with helping themselves than they are with trying to screw over other teams. If there is value teams will get it. It's not like a trade demand situation where there is only one team bidding. The entire league can put in offers.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I never said they weren't going to get nothing back. Just not full value. There is zero reason for any team to do so.

Ribiero and Ward aren't terrible players either and were cap dumps. Nothing happened to them because teams wanted too much. The Hawks are no different.

You're not getting it. I'm not going to repeat myself over multiple posts.
A cap dump is a cap dump is a cap dump. I'm out of this discussion.

No, you aren't getting it. You are ignoring simple economics. Sorry bud, can't convince stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FlameZilla

If he was traded, played a couple of seasons and then retired would the Blackhawks be punished for cap circumvention or would it be the team that acquired him? The contract runs until he's 42...

I have no idea - but it would no interesting to know

[getbak]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I have no idea - but it would no interesting to know

The cap recapture penalties go against the team that benefitted from them. That's one reason the Rangers bought out Richards and the Sabres bought out Ehrhoff, even though both could have likely generated interest on the trade market.

If Hossa retires in 2016 before his salary cuts nearly in half, the Hawks will be hit with a recapture penalty of $3.675M for 5 years. If he retires the following year, when his salary drops to $1M, it will be $4.275M for 4 years. Even if they trade him, the bulk of the recapture penalty will go against the Hawks.

If they buy him out prior to his retirement, the buyout hit will be about the same as the recapture penalty. However, I believe they could trade him to a team with excess cap space, and that team could then buy him out and take on the cap hit with minimal cost.

Most likely, the trade-buyout scenario will be what Chicago does in 2 or 3 years.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Matt Reeeeead

No, you aren't getting it. You are ignoring simple economics. Sorry bud, can't convince stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Get over yourself. Calling someone stupid for not sharing you opinion is arrogant.

I'm not your "bud" or whatever pet name you want to use while communicating with others.

We disagree on the topic and that's all there is to it. But please, by all means carry on with the smug attitude and labeling. Works well for new comers around here.

[TjRhythmic]

Originally Posted by getbak

The cap recapture penalties go against the team that benefitted from them. That's one reason the Rangers bought out Richards and the Sabres bought out Ehrhoff, even though both could have likely generated interest on the trade market.

If Hossa retires in 2016 before his salary cuts nearly in half, the Hawks will be hit with a recapture penalty of $3.675M for 5 years. If he retires the following year, when his salary drops to $1M, it will be $4.275M for 4 years. Even if they trade him, the bulk of the recapture penalty will go against the Hawks.

If they buy him out prior to his retirement, the buyout hit will be about the same as the recapture penalty. However, I believe they could trade him to a team with excess cap space, and that team could then buy him out and take on the cap hit with minimal cost.

Most likely, the trade-buyout scenario will be what Chicago does in 2 or 3 years.

Quick question... With Luongo, if he retires early, then is it Vancouver that gets saddled with the recapture penalty?

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by TjRhythmic

Quick question... With Luongo, if he retires early, then is it Vancouver that gets saddled with the recapture penalty?

I think both teams get hit with it but Vancouver gets it worse than Florida if I remember correctly.

If you find the Luongo trade thread there is a chart that shows what the recapture penalties are based what year Luongo retires.

[getbak]

CapGeek actually has a page dedicated to Luongo's possible recapture penalties: http://capgeek.com/news/roberto-luon...tage-recapture


They also have a recapture calculator for all the other players whose contracts could be affected: http://capgeek.com/recapture-calculator/

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by getbak

CapGeek actually has a page dedicated to Luongo's possible recapture penalties: http://capgeek.com/news/roberto-luon...tage-recapture


They also have a recapture calculator for all the other players whose contracts could be affected: http://capgeek.com/recapture-calculator/

Do I read that right?
If Luongo retires in 2020, the Canucks have an $8.5M cap penalty?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Do I read that right?
If Luongo retires in 2020, the Canucks have an $8.5M cap penalty?

Yes, the penalty is the amount you "benefitted" from the contract spread over the remaining term of the contract. If a team keeps a player for the entire contract, their benefit value will drop as his salary drops in the later years of the deal.

Because they traded him, Vancouver's "benefit" value is locked in at just over $8.5M. Their penalty will be $8.5M divided by the number of years remaining on his contract when he retires.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by getbak

Yes, the penalty is the amount you "benefitted" from the contract spread over the remaining term of the contract. If a team keeps a player for the entire contract, their benefit value will drop as his salary drops in the later years of the deal.

Because they traded him, Vancouver's "benefit" value is locked in at just over $8.5M. Their penalty will be $8.5M divided by the number of years remaining on his contract when he retires.

Haha... So Luongo could certainly have the last laugh at the 'expense' of the Canucks. Retire with one year remaining and hit the Canucks with an 8.5M one season cap hit.
yikes

[thefoss1957]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I took a peak at the Chicago HF board to see what they were thinking of the situation and everyone seemed to be complaining of his attitude on Twitter. I can't find a single disparaging tweet. What's that all about????

Street...the Chi boards I've seen, really haven't had much to say about K. Hayes, at all...a college player that seems no better than some of the guys at the Rock...there was some sorrow that J. Hayes didn't work out, but, there was recognition that that Hayes was going to get no better than 4th line minutes, and, again, was one of many Wingers in a crowded field.

There is much more feeling for Morin, hoping that Q gives him a fairer shot than he got, this passed season. Regin and Nordstrom are the two other forwards that Q seems willing to try, at this point.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Oduya dumped, as I said, and rumors about Sharp abound...Versteeg is the one forward that can be had for a bag of pucks...and I wouldn't be surprised to see Bickell shipped cheaply, to a team that has only paid attention to his playoff efforts (he seems to sleepwalk through regular seasons). Leddy, if he gets moved, I would think, would be more toward the mid-season. Rozival is another, who I would prefer to see moved first.

[Read Only]

Bickell seems like a guy that would be a perfect MacTavish bold move.

Big, overpaid and not nearly as good as his reputation.

He just paid 4 million for a 30 point winger what's another 3 million for a 25 point guy?