It's Joe Sakic and Patrick Roy - if any of you actually believe you have a better grasp on the game of hockey at the NHL level than those two...well, it's not really possible to have a reasonable debate with you over the positives and negatives of Berra's game.
I see your appeal to authority and raise you Wayne Gretzky's coaching career.
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This entire exchange is an opinion, yours and mine.
You have zero evidence to support your point of view, so you are just talking.
Should we take your word that Varlamov is not having a carrier year.
That JSG is not having a very good year.
And that Coaches and Goalie Coaches have no place in hockey, since as you put they have minimal impact.
Actually my opinion is supported by stats. I'm simply saying that neither Varlamov or JSG are reaching heights they haven't attained before, so to solely credit Roy for their performance is ridiculous. I never once said Allaire had minimal impact (in fact, I said you'd actually have an argument if you were trying to credit Allaire) or that coaches or goalie coaches don't matter, so perhaps stop putting words in my mouth if you'd like to continue the conversation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by puckluck2
Wow dude you want the guy to show you evidence that a coach has helped 2 goalies play better? That is literally impossible to do. You act as your opinion is so highly regarded it doesn't need "evidence" to support it.
The Avs are a much better coached team. Watching them play is all the evidence you need. The last 3 or so years they couldn't play defence worth crap.
Wow dude! Wow! Dude! Cowabunga! It's not impossible, it's called stats. If Roy was some goalie guru that could turn Berra into a big-time tender (as the person claimed) then that should be provable in some sense. Neither tender is currently showing exceptional statistics that can't be attributed to the better play of the entire team. I'm not arguing that Roy isn't a good coach, I'm simply saying it's foolish to think he's going to wave his magic wand and turn Berra into a great goalie. Allaire may be able to do it, but Roy? Show me evidence. What experience does he have in improving goaltenders? What? He was a great goaltender once? Yeah, Gretzky was a great player once, and that sure made HIM a good coach...
I know, I know, you're not much for concrete evidence over something being true or not. You'd just deny it anyway.
Roy and Sakic run the show. Sherman is little more than an empty suit.
Yep. Sherman fulfilled his mission of putting the organization in position to take MacKinnon and now the team actually wants to compete and win his skills at turning a franchise into a mess are no longer required.
Wow dude! Wow! Dude! Cowabunga! It's not impossible, it's called stats. If Roy was some goalie guru that could turn Berra into a big-time tender (as the person claimed) then that should be provable in some sense. Neither tender is currently showing exceptional statistics that can't be attributed to the better play of the entire team. I'm not arguing that Roy isn't a good coach, I'm simply saying it's foolish to think he's going to wave his magic wand and turn Berra into a great goalie. Allaire may be able to do it, but Roy? Show me evidence. What experience does he have in improving goaltenders? What? He was a great goaltender once? Yeah, Gretzky was a great player once, and that sure made HIM a good coach...
I know, I know, you're not much for concrete evidence over something being true or not. You'd just deny it anyway.
He did post the relevance of the stats and as usual you used your spinning to widen the goal posts. Are you denying that a better defensive system wouldn't help the goalies, even Berra? Whether he makes them technically better is irrelevant if he can lower the scoring chances and shots against come from a longer distance but no surprise you fail to get the point and are just looking for an argument.
You need to stop flipping out at the most mundane things. He thinks Roy has helped the goalies and will help Berra, sue him.
It doesn't matter how many times you say it, but stats will not change magically to support your point of view. Varlamov is having his best year in NHL.
Roy paid his dues as a coach for years, he was a good one and so he got a shot at NHL level. Gretzky did not have coaching experience.
I got no problem with the trade we made, but we could easily lose it. Optically looks good for now. Great thing is that we can follow Berra and see how he develops.
I will bet he gets better, much better.
Having Ortio, who I think will be Kipper 2.0 makes the Berra trade acceptable.
He did post the relevance of the stats and as usual you used your spinning to widen the goal posts. Are you denying that a better defensive system wouldn't help the goalies, even Berra? Whether he makes them technically better is irrelevant if he can lower the scoring chances and shots against come from a longer distance but no surprise you fail to get the point and are just looking for an argument.
You need to stop flipping out at the most mundane things. He thinks Roy has helped the goalies and will help Berra, sue him.
Ah, suddenly you're an expert on the argument someone else is making.
I don't want to get into it with you, I asked the original poster why he thought Roy specifically would improve Berra's game. His opinion was that Varlamov and JSG are much better goalies because of Roy, I am simply arguing that nothing supports that opinion. Bernier in Toronto has been great this year, is that because of Carlyle? Old "allow 30 shots a night"? Doubtful. Berra is going to go play for a better team, but his deficiencies as a goaltender were not due to the team around him. That's the issue.
Anyways, pretty rich you accuse me of looking for an argument. Myself and the other guy started off in conversation, you just jumped right in to argue. Pot... Kettle... All that.
Let the grape juice flow and every Canadian medal forever haunt you.
This doesn't need to be the big argument fest you're trying to make it out to be, so I won't bother responding to you any further on this topic. Feel free to get in any last jabs unchallenged.
Wow dude you want the guy to show you evidence that a coach has helped 2 goalies play better? That is literally impossible to do. You act as your opinion is so highly regarded it doesn't need "evidence" to support it.
The Avs are a much better coached team. Watching them play is all the evidence you need. The last 3 or so years they couldn't play defence worth crap.
The Avs are a paper tiger. They are the Leafs of the west. The team has been buoyed massively by above average goaltending that, when it drops back to average, will see the Avalanche fall off the map, Joe Sacco year 2+ style.
It doesn't matter how many times you say it, but stats will not change magically to support your point of view. Varlamov is having his best year in NHL.
You're right actually, while his GAA is a higher, his SV% is .02 higher than his previous best year, so I can't deny you that.
But still, if your argument is that the goalies are specifically playing better, then you should be crediting Allaire, not Roy. Roy is certainly responsible for the increased defensive presence however.
I'll still be fine waiting until I see something that supports Roy being a miracle worker with goaltenders.
Doesn't take Patrick Roy or a hockey expert to see that Berra has the size, and athleticism needed to be a top goalie it just takes a coach with enough confidence to think they can fix his "technical" attributes.
Roy and Allaire surely fit that bill since they are probably two of the most confident guys in the NHL.
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Doesn't take Patrick Roy or a hockey expert to see that Berra has the size, and athleticism needed to be a top goalie it just takes a coach with enough confidence to think they can fix his "technical" attributes.
Roy and Allaire surely fit that bill since they are probably two of the most confident guys in the NHL.
I agree that with Roy and especially Allaire that they could get the most out of Berra? That said they have both said that with work they see him as a capable backup. Not sure where you get "top goalie" from.
Small sample size, but at this rate the trade will go down as the biggest steal of Burke's career.
Yes, Berra started 2 games for the Avs.
Here is some color from NHL.com:
1st Game: 5-4 OT loss to Jets @ WPG
Quote:
Berra, whom the Avalanche acquired from the Calgary Flames on March 5 and subsequently signed to a three-year contract extension, made his Colorado debut. He stopped 22 shots (of 27) in his first game since March 3 when he was with Calgary.
"I was nervous," Berra said. "I didn't play my best game."
2nd Game: 5-1 loss to Sharks @ SJS
Quote:
Colorado coach Patrick Roy's decision to start No. 3 goaltender Reto Berra and rest Semyon Varlamov and Giguere quickly backfired. The Sharks grabbed a 2-0 lead on goals by Boyle and Marleau, and Roy benched Berra for Giguere 10:11 into the game. Berra allowed two goals on five shots.
Berra, 27, has an .883 save percentage and 3.57 GAA on the year, with just a pair of wins.
Should he be waived or traded, it’ll be a dramatic fall from grace for a guy the Avalanche once rated quite highly. Colorado gave a second-round pick to Calgary for Berra at last year’s trade deadline then, just a week later, inked him to a three-year extension worth $4.35 million — before he ever played a game for the team.
All told, Berra has made just 11 appearances for Colorado.
And it didn’t take long for Pickard to leap him on the depth chart this season. The 22-year-old has a 2-3-0 record with a .933 save percentage and 2.24 GAA, and has forced his way into the big-league roster despite many assuming he’d spend the majority of the year with AHL Lake Erie.
Worth noting that Berra has an average annual cap hit of $1.45M, and his contract is of the one-way variety.
