Is Bob Hartley the right coach for this team?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Playfair had the same roster as D.Sutter and B.Sutter had essentially the same quality of roster that Keenan had. Those records are directly comparable IMO, where as Hartley's has little basis of comparison in that list.

Totally incorrect. Mike Keenan had the most talented Flames roster assembled since the early 90's. Brent had similar for about 6 months until that January weekend when Darryl essentially destroyed that roster. Take a look at the roster he had to begin the 2011/2012 season. Brendan Morrison was the top line center for a lot of that season for crying out loud. Then compare that to the 2008/2009 roster Keenan had to work with. Not even close especially when you consider Iginla and Kipper were probably at the pinnacle of their career under Keenan.

As far as I'm concerned Hartley has much better center forward depth than Clarke Wilm and Jeff Schantz in prominent roles. I don't think some of you realize just how bad some of those young guns rosters were. Much less talent in comparison with the rest of the league than this years team.

[Rerun]

I blame Mike Keenan for the ruination of Jarmoe Iginla.
Under Keenan, he could do whatever he wanted to out on the ice. Since then, he played that style no matter who the coach was.

And I really think his attitude filtered down to the rest of the team.

Hartley, has changed the attitude in the locker room 180 degrees. I may not always agree with certain decisions that he makes on a day to day basis, and I don't care how he plays favourites sometimes (but most coaches do, I guess), but overall I like Hartley and the job he's done so far this season. He's been a pleasant surprise this year. I thought it would take a lot longer to dig the rot out of the team.

[nik-]

I got shot down regarding my analysis of Keenan being the downfall because he had to deal with injuries. But I stand by it, he allowed a slight country club mentality to become baked in to the culture of the team.

That was a horrible decision by Sutter.

[bluck]

So uhh how long till Hartley is relieved of his duties now?! He is not a Brian Burke type coach as I stated earlier. Do you guys think he stays?!

[Dorky Pigs]

He's gone soon.

[moon]

I want Hartley gone but why is he not a Burke type of coach?

Seems to like dependable vets, seems like a hardnosed, old school coach and definitely seems to like to have toughness over skill on his 4th line. Sounds like a guy that Burke would like.

[bluck]

Originally Posted by moon

I want Hartley gone but why is he not a Burke type of coach?

Seems to like dependable vets, seems like a hardnosed, old school coach and definitely seems to like to have toughness over skill on his 4th line. Sounds like a guy that Burke would like.

I will bet you a beer he's gone within a few months moon

[bluck]

Guess I owe ya a beer haha

[Stay Golden]

Hartley will be given the end of the season then turfed. Dead man walking scenario, maybe they fire him if he loses the focus of the team and they continue to blow 3rd period leads.

[AltaGuy]

I really want an elite coach for our team.

Pray Trotz gets fired this season and we snatch him up before anyone blinks.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I really want an elite coach for our team.

Pray Trotz gets fired this season and we snatch him up before anyone blinks.

How about no

[moon]

Originally Posted by bluck

I will bet you a beer he's gone within a few months moon

I think he is gone at end of the season, if not sooner, but he does seem like somewhat of a Burke coach in terms of many of the things they both believe in.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by bluck

So uhh how long till Hartley is relieved of his duties now?! He is not a Brian Burke type coach as I stated earlier. Do you guys think he stays?!

Burke says he's been happy with the coaches. Happy with how they have the team playing, having with the team's work ethic and happy with how they've used the youngsters.

Burke says he has promised them they will be here the rest of the year for sure.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think the new GM will be given the choice as whether to retain Hartley, or find a new coaching staff.

Still think Hartley has been doing a good job. Baertschi is just not quite ready for the NHL, and Monahan has been (and has been great under Hartley). Interesting having Burke allude that Hartley now can freely use guys as he wants, including sending them to the AHL. Seems like Hartley was coaching with one arm tied behind his back?

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Totally incorrect. Mike Keenan had the most talented Flames roster assembled since the early 90's. Brent had similar for about 6 months until that January weekend when Darryl essentially destroyed that roster. Take a look at the roster he had to begin the 2011/2012 season. Brendan Morrison was the top line center for a lot of that season for crying out loud. Then compare that to the 2008/2009 roster Keenan had to work with. Not even close especially when you consider Iginla and Kipper were probably at the pinnacle of their career under Keenan.

As far as I'm concerned Hartley has much better center forward depth than Clarke Wilm and Jeff Schantz in prominent roles. I don't think some of you realize just how bad some of those young guns rosters were. Much less talent in comparison with the rest of the league than this years team.

What? Did you change your mind?

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...&postcount=120

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

This team with Kipper, Iginla, Bowmeester was arguably one of the worst Flames teams of all time under Hartley last season and next season the Flames best player is who? Cammalleri? He's not that good. Giordano? He's was terrible last year. Glencross? He's a good player but best player? Huder? Maybe sigh. Honestly I can't think of a really, really good player in this roster. We are probably the looking at the worst team in the history of the franchise.

Now that's not the end of the world though as this franchise brought it on itself and has chose the correct path out which will be a little painful in the immediate future but as long as the young talent gets good development time this team can climb back up.

The 180 you have done since Iginla is no longer around to take all the blame is astounding.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

The 180 you have done since Iginla is no longer around to take all the blame is astounding.

I find posters like you "astounding" that try and dig anything up they can to stir the pot. As you can clearly see in the bolded posts of mine;

Much less talent in comparison with the rest of the league than this years team.

Means in comparison to the rest of the league as I was careful enough to add then because I know trolls like you will always try and dig up history. Some of those young guns rosters were complete strippers with AHL players playing because the owners couldn't even afford to keep mediocre players like Gagner or Cassels. There was much more of a disparity between the top and bottom teams in those days.

Honestly I can't think of a really, really good player in this roster. We are probably the looking at the worst team in the history of the franchise.

I said probably and guys like Monahan, Russell, Hudler, Brodie, have been better than advertised and Giordano is having a fantastic bounce back year. This team still will probably finish lower than any of those young guns teams due to the poor defensive play and goaltending so what exactly am I wrong about on both counts?

Sorry Frankie. Time to head back to the drawing board.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I find posters like you "astounding" that try and dig anything up they can to stir the pot. As you can clearly see in the bolded posts of mine;

Much less talent in comparison with the rest of the league than this years team.

Means in comparison to the rest of the league as I was careful enough to add then because I know trolls like you will always try and dig up history. Some of those young guns rosters were complete strippers with AHL players playing because the owners couldn't even afford to keep mediocre players like Gagner or Cassels. There was much more of a disparity between the top and bottom teams in those days.

Honestly I can't think of a really, really good player in this roster. We are probably the looking at the worst team in the history of the franchise.

I said probably and guys like Monahan, Russell, Hudler, Brodie, have been better than advertised and Giordano is having a fantastic bounce back year. This team still will probably finish lower than any of those young guns teams due to the poor defensive play and goaltending so what exactly am I wrong about on both counts?

Sorry Frankie. Time to head back to the drawing board.

I never said you were wrong on both counts. I said you've changed your tune. Do you think that perhaps Monahan, Russell, Hudler, Brodie, and Giordano are playing better than advertised because of Hartley?

I've got $20 that says this years team clears the young guns all time low of 67 points in 97/98. Bob Hartley isn't going to drag them below that, despite what you believe.

As for a bigger disparity in top & bottom teams, only 3 teams in the entire league finished with over 100 points that season. The Tampa Bay Lightning gained just 44 points in 82 games and 4 teams finished with less points than Calgary, including the Canucks.

[krynski]

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

I never said you were wrong on both counts. I said you've changed your tune. Do you think that perhaps Monahan, Russell, Hudler, Brodie, and Giordano are playing better than advertised because of Hartley?

I've got $20 that says this years team clears the young guns all time low of 67 points in 97/98. Bob Hartley isn't going to drag them below that, despite what you believe.

As for a bigger disparity in top & bottom teams, only 3 teams in the entire league finished with over 100 points that season. The Tampa Bay Lightning gained just 44 points in 82 games and 4 teams finished with less points than Calgary, including the Canucks.

I haven't changed my tune as at the time the Flames roster didn't look good but some players have had turnaround years and Smid was added to the defense later. Remember I said it probably will be the worst team and didn't say it was certainty but it doesn't take away the fact that this year's team isn't very good.

This team may get more points than 1997/98 (have you looked at that roster yikes?) but let's not forget that teams have more points available to them now with the shootout than the young guns era and the salary cap has brought on less of a gap between good and bad teams. They still have a very good chance at finishing lower in the league standings than the 1997/98 team as they are drafting 5th as of today so this still can be the worst Flames team ever relative to the rest of the league.

Bob's probably going to be shown the door at the end of the season so why bother making excuses for a coach on borrowed time?

[browna]

If they get a GM in the next 30-45 days as he wants (and needs, to get setup for the trade deadline after the break) then I think they'll let Hartley go before the end (if not very near the end) of the year (with not necessarily a replacement )

If Burke doesn't get the guy he wants in that time frame, it won't be until the offseason.

Feaster's gone because he wasn't going to be the guy to take to the next step after hearing from other GM's about Feaster.

Hartley's not going to take this team to the next level, but deciding who is exactly, is going to be a joint effort between Burke and the new GM to figure out and that will take a bit more time.