Kipper won't agree to be traded

[VladtheImpaler]

For what it is worth, both Morganti and Duha thought Kipper was completely in the wrong. But he is a Flame, so, of course, he is doing the right thing...

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Imported_Aussie

It would be different if we were talking about a guy like Comeau or Babchuk

The first part of your post is correct. However, I disagree with this part. If one of those guys decided to go forego their paycheque because the conditions of their employment (i.e. being moved to another city) changed, they are well within their rights to do so.

Fans like Poe kind of disgust me, as they completely dehumanize these guys. They're not your personal entertainment puppets, they're people. They owe you, as a fan, nothing. They owe their employers to perform the duties in their contract. If for whatever reason they choose not to perform these duties, then their employer is not obligated to pay them, just like any other employer/employee relationship.

They make 10-20x more than you to play a game and that bothers you? Then stop watching hockey. The career earnings of someone in any given profession does not limit their entitlement to rights as a person in the workforce.

[Bmuzyka]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Honoring his contract - he plays when they tell him to play, he practices when they tell him to practice.

Every NHL team has the right to end the contract with a buyout.

Every NHL player has the right to not report and have the contract suspended without pay, or broken.

I don't see either side not 'honoring their contract'.

With that being said, I am still waiting to hear from Kipper himself about this situation. I, for one, do not trust Kypreos, and with that being said, no matter who else picks up this story and runs with it, until Kipper himself addresses it this story to me is of the 'unfounded speculation' being put forth as a legitimate rumor.

I don't see the point of grabbing a pitchfork and going after a guy who has been so good for this organization, and helped this organization elevate itself to relevancy again. Until "The Scorpion" actually confirms or denies his intent (and he will be asked, you can be sure - if Iginla was/is asked about waiving, why wouldn't they ask Kipper?) before I really form an opinion on it. The only opinion I have at the moment is that Kypreos is desperate for some news-breaking tidbit in the hopes of staying relevant at his job.

Bu he isn't, he is holding the Flames hostage. They can't buy him out until the end of the season, and they can't trade him now, because no team will do it. If they knew he was going to retire a year prior to the contract ending, you do like we are doing with Iggy, and trade him to at least get an extra draft pick or a prospect.

Hockey isn't like the real world, where people get a Golden Handshake after they retire. In hockey, a player retiring is literally the loss of an asset for that organization. The GM has a responsibility to try and offset that loss by trading up or down, to lessen the impact.

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by rubecube

The first part of your post is correct. However, I disagree with this part. If one of those guys decided to go forego their paycheque because the conditions of their employment (i.e. being moved to another city) changed, they are well within their rights to do so.

Fans like Poe kind of disgust me, as they completely dehumanize these guys. They're not your personal entertainment puppets, they're people. They owe you, as a fan, nothing. They owe their employers to perform the duties in their contract. If for whatever reason they choose not to perform these duties, then their employer is not obligated to pay them, just like any other employer/employee relationship.

They make 10-20x more than you to play a game and that bothers you? Then stop watching hockey. The career earnings of someone in any given profession does not limit their entitlement to rights as a person in the workforce.

Woah your horse, are you suggesting that we as fans owe the players something?? My friend, that is not how the service industry works.

[Dajazz]

Originally Posted by Itse

The slavery days are over you know. Nobody can force you to work if you really don't feel like it.

Of course, if you refuse to work you're not going to get paid, but that's what makes it fair.

It sucks that we propably can't trade him with a rumour like this going around, but at the end of the day, a man has the right to make his own choices.

That's my point, under current circumstances he plays he gets paid. No play no pay.

Not sure where the slavery is all about. Getting paid 5m/y on avg doing what you love while under a contract, with an agent and a union behind you sounds pretty ok to me you know

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by JerzeeGirl

that's just another 2 months on top of the final month of this season...fulfill your obligations Kipper!

I get what you're saying but if I'm in Kipper's shoes and if I'm planning on retiring anyways at this time I consider my obligations to my wife and newborn child to be the greater obligation.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Yrebmi

Why would we use a buyout? Kipper's contract is not a 35+ and is not on the books should he officially retire.

I think that was changed in the CBA.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I think that was changed in the CBA.

Even if it was, I'm pretty sure it would be grandfathered.

Besides, assuming Kipper does decide to play next year, I think he would be an excellent mentor to Ramo.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by JazzyFlame

Woah your horse, are you suggesting that we as fans owe the players something?? My friend, that is not how the service industry works.

Where the hell did you get that? I'm saying we as people should respect any person's labour rights, regardless of their salary or occupation.

[afc wimbledon]

This is what happens when you wait until players are deep into their thirties and have kids and a life outside of road trips and banging puck bunnies to trade them, chalk it up to another massive failure of the management of the organization.

You can't fault Kipper on this at all, at any age a player has a moral right to decide they wish to retire, it is wholly different to them holding out for more money or ice time or refusing to play on the second line

[JazzyFlame]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

This is what happens when you wait until players are deep into their thirties and have kids and a life outside of road trips and banging puck bunnies to trade them, chalk it up to another massive failure of the management of the organization.

+a million

Management should manage players family growth.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bmuzyka

Bu he isn't, he is holding the Flames hostage. They can't buy him out until the end of the season, and they can't trade him now, because no team will do it. If they knew he was going to retire a year prior to the contract ending, you do like we are doing with Iggy, and trade him to at least get an extra draft pick or a prospect.

Hockey isn't like the real world, where people get a Golden Handshake after they retire. In hockey, a player retiring is literally the loss of an asset for that organization. The GM has a responsibility to try and offset that loss by trading up or down, to lessen the impact.

This is 100% your choice to think this way, and it is really fine. The biggest point in my post was: "Is this even confirmed or denied by Kipper?"

I may or may not agree with you. I can see both sides of the argument, to be honest. I just would rather wait to decide if I should or shouldn't get my pitchfork out until there is at least confirmation one way or another by Kipper himself, and just don't take "TheRealKyper's" statement at face value until then. Maybe this is really true, but at least until then I don't see the need to polish my pitchfork and light my torch.

[kyuss275]

By now you would have thought the flames would have come out and said something if it was not true. If nothing is said by the flames in the next 24 hours i would tend to believe it's true.

Don't care either way, still think he retires at the end of the year.

[smalltownref]

My prediction is that he retires at the end of the year as well. He just said all this so he doesn't get traded before he does retire. Was it the right thing to do? Mmm... definitely not. It put the Flames in a terrible position. He still could get traded before the season is out, especially if the other team thinks he is bluffing and just trying to do everything in his own power (before legal issues kick in) to avoid getting traded. It's not like he would be put in terrible working conditions... he just wants to stay close to his family. It puts the Flames in a tough spot though because if they do trade him, they look terrible for not 'respecting' the players wishes. If they don't trade him, it's a lost asset and the debate will forever continue about 'what could have been' if Kipper didn't say these things.

[JerzeeGirl]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I get what you're saying but if I'm in Kipper's shoes and if I'm planning on retiring anyways at this time I consider my obligations to my wife and newborn child to be the greater obligation.

Why is this child any different than his first child? It's not like his wife is at home with multiple children under 2 or 3 and no help/no possibility of help....

While I feel for him wanting to be around his family - he signed a contract and if the Flames hadn't done their part you know he would have had the union up in arms to protect his contractual rights.

How many other players suck it up and live up to their contracts despite having a family they don't want to leave?

Now, when the Flames (who are well within their rights to look at trading him to improve the club & who are no doubt well aware of his plan to probly retire after this season) want to perhaps do something to improve the club by trading him he completely cuts their legs out from underneath them by telling the media he won't report to a new team.

Not cool.

[CaramonLS]

They had a real nightmare scenario on 960 that can be filed under 'slim chance'.

1) Kiprusoff doesn't get moved this season at the deadline
2) Gets questioned by reporters, admits the Flames knew he wasn't going to play out the last year of the deal.
3) He retires at the end of the season
4) Flames get dinged their 2013 first round pick for 'cap circumvention'.

It would be so tragic that you'd have to laugh.

[Super-Rye]

Kiprusoff refusing to report to another team leads us too 2 conclusions.

1) He does not want to leave Calgary. He does not care if the team is rebuilding and wants to play out the rest of his days in Calgary.

2) He intends on retiring at the end of the season, and moving his family back to Finland where he can live out his days in the forests of Finland as a Finnish Grizzly Adams.

With the Flames rumored to be looking for a Blue Chip goalie prospect in return for Iginla one has to assume, for this moment at least, that option 2 is the most likely option. Time will tell however. If the Flames don`t get a goaltender at the deadline then perhaps option 1 gets a little more traction.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by JerzeeGirl

Why is this child any different than his first child? It's not like his wife is at home with multiple children under 2 or 3 and no help/no possibility of help....

While I feel for him wanting to be around his family - he signed a contract and if the Flames hadn't done their part you know he would have had the union up in arms to protect his contractual rights.

How many other players suck it up and live up to their contracts despite having a family they don't want to leave?

How is saying "I'm not going to collect money from you to not perform my duties," not living up to your contract? It is literally the same as any employee in any kind of job quitting when their employer asks them to do something they don't want to do.[/quote]

Now, when the Flames (who are well within their rights to look at trading him to improve the club & who are no doubt well aware of his plan to probly retire after this season) want to perhaps do something to improve the club by trading him he completely cuts their legs out from underneath them by telling the media he won't report to a new team.

Not cool.

The Flames improving their organization is not Kipper's responsibility. Nor does he owe them anything, unless they plan on continuing to pay him once he's off the team.

[Rudee]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I get what you're saying but if I'm in Kipper's shoes and if I'm planning on retiring anyways at this time I consider my obligations to my wife and newborn child to be the greater obligation.

Lots of players have babies and don't quit playing as a result. They may take a day or two off tops, and then get back to work. You don't use the newborn baby excuse as a reason to simply be a "no show". Very unprofessional of Kipper.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by JerzeeGirl

Why is this child any different than his first child? It's not like his wife is at home with multiple children under 2 or 3 and no help/no possibility of help....

While I feel for him wanting to be around his family - he signed a contract and if the Flames hadn't done their part you know he would have had the union up in arms to protect his contractual rights.

How many other players suck it up and live up to their contracts despite having a family they don't want to leave?

Now, when the Flames (who are well within their rights to look at trading him to improve the club & who are no doubt well aware of his plan to probly retire after this season) want to perhaps do something to improve the club by trading him he completely cuts their legs out from underneath them by telling the media he won't report to a new team.

Not cool.

Maybe the first pregnancy was a challenge. Maybe this pregnancy was a challenge. Each pregnancy is different and there are lots of things that come up which challenge families and their priorities.

Maybe his wife suffers from postpartum depression? Maybe the birth was difficult and his wife is having troubles recovering.

If we’re going to take some twitter post as proof that Kipper has even said he wouldn’t report to a new team, and go on ranting that he’s an arse-hole based on speculation then we should also consider some of the other possibilities.

What if Dominic Moore didn’t publicize his wife’s battle with cancer? The hockey watching public would have lynched him for deserting his team, not knowing the circumstances.