PC Leadership Race- Redford wins.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by Agent86

Or it could be that a lot of the programs which were proposed actually have a long term positive impact on the economy. The result of the cuts in the 90s in which the health care system was absolutely gutted resulted in a less healthy population, increasing the overall health care costs in the long run when the less healthy population relied on the health care system more.

I would much rather the PC party start looking towards long term savings rather than merely cutting and slashing.

Any stats or links? I have not seen anything like that but it may make an interesting read for sure.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Any stats or links? I have not seen anything like that but it may make an interesting read for sure.

I saw some statistics last year on one of the U of A databases that I will try and find. However the basic premise remains that primary health care saves money in the long run as having a healthy, vibrant population is able to contribute to the economy and reduce the long term costs of chronic illnesses. In the cuts of the 90s the PCs gutted large portions of the primary health care network and since them have been focused on reducing wait times at acute care settings because it is possible to see an immediate measurable impact in the papers and thus help in the polls when there is an election. Investing in health care that keeps people out of the hospital won't see any real impact in the parties term but will have a better long term bang for your buck than building a new floor on top of the Rockyview.

Preventative medicine (and that includes increasing AISH payments which are insanely low by the way at 1,188 dollars per month - hardly enough to live on) is the key to reducing the wait times and the reliance on the health care system but in order to make the changes there needs to be someone who isn't merely going to cut and slash to appease the old boys club of the PCs.

[CaptainCrunch]

I would hope that whichever party achieves power in the next election promises a proper audit of the health care system. Its not that we're not spending enough money. We're spending the money in the wrong places.

The health care system has pretty well become a job factory for an overload of back end administrators, managers and executives.

Its time to properly rebuild the system and make it health focused.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

If you want to drive down Healthcare costs while improving care take a look at this article in HBR. A big problem lies in a convoluted accounting system that makes performance management unnecessarily challenging

[darklord700]

My kids go to school and I haven't seen any downside effects of the so called education cuts. Is it necessary to to reverse the $100M education cut for career students to stay in campus and party a few more years? Wild Rose here I come.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by darklord700

My kids go to school and I haven't seen any downside effects of the so called education cuts.

Why then does a parent group at every school in the Province have to hold casinos, just so they can buy books, computers etc for students? The government has shifted the burden to gamblers.

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by darklord700

My kids go to school and I haven't seen any downside effects of the so called education cuts. Is it necessary to to reverse the $100M education cut for career students to stay in campus and party a few more years? Wild Rose here I come.

My neighbourhood doesn't have gravel roads. Is it necessary to pave neighbourhoods that do?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by darklord700

My kids go to school and I haven't seen any downside effects of the so called education cuts. Is it necessary to to reverse the $100M education cut for career students to stay in campus and party a few more years? Wild Rose here I come.

I haven't had cancer and haven't experienced those issues personally. Is it necessary to fund the Tom Baker?

[mykalberta]

I will give the ex UN Human Rights Lawyer her fair shot and decide at election time. I have no problem getting rid of the flat tax as its a good notion but simply doesnt work IMO.

I dont see someone with those qualifications fending of WRC in the rural ridings in Alberta and since there is a significant number of those relative to population balances in cities I am guessing we get really close to a minority government in the next election.

The Alberta party is still the real threat to Conservatism in this province, so long as they are not allowed to mature and grow then PC or WRC, what is the real difference.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by troutman

Why then does a parent group at every school in the Province have to hold casinos, just so they can buy books, computers etc for students? The government has shifted the burden to gamblers.

I haven't been asked to do that. But schools have asked students to sell cookies or what not for as long as I can remember for various reasons. Casino night is just the latest trend.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by darklord700

My kids go to school and I haven't seen any downside effects of the so called education cuts. Is it necessary to to reverse the $100M education cut for career students to stay in campus and party a few more years? Wild Rose here I come.

1. That's good - are you going to extrapolate that across the entire province?

2. K-12 career students who stay on campus to party for a few more years? I believe that there are students who can take advantage of the education systems policy and attend school after the age of 18, generally this is for people who have severe developmental disabilities and not someone who wants to be a career high school? student.

3. Investing in education is what upsets you about Redford's policies so far - putting money into an area where there is proven results.

After a quick google search I can up this with report from MIT

http://web.mit.edu/workplacecenter/d...l%20Report.pdf

"Every dollar invested in quality early care and education saves taxpayers up to $13.00 in future costs."

"Failing to invest sufficiently in quality early care and education shortchanges taxpayers because the return on investment is greater than many other economic development options."

"Quality early education is as essential for a productive 21st century workforce as roads or the internet; investing in it grows the economy."

I am sure that I could find more but the literature all speaks to the same thing - invest in education and see a positive long term impact on the people of the province and the economy.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I haven't been asked to do that. But schools have asked students to sell cookies or what not for as long as I can remember for various reasons. Casino night is just the latest trend.

Sure, but there is a huge difference. When kids sold cookies or whatever back in the day it was to raise money for a big field trip or something like that. At this point we're asking parents to fundraise for what are (IMO) essential school supplies. Things like playgrounds, computers, etc. that must be provided so that our students today can stand on their own two feet in the future.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Agent86

I am sure that I could find more but the literature all speaks to the same thing - invest in education and see a positive long term impact on the people of the province and the economy.

How much do you want to invest that's the question to every decision?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I haven't been asked to do that. But schools have asked students to sell cookies or what not for as long as I can remember for various reasons. Casino night is just the latest trend.

One casino can raise $80 - $100K. Bake sales don't come close.

[Cheese]

Havent followed anything in Alberta at all...but ya wow...you guyz elected Robert Redford?

Hell good on ya Alberta! A woman as Premier, that'll shake up all those good 'ole boys.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by darklord700

How much do you want to invest that's the question to every decision?

I would personally listen to the experts regarding how much money is required in order to give a child a proper education - I don't have those facts or figures in front of me - nor will I pretend to. Sometimes the quality of a leader is to know that they don't know all the answers and to refer to someone else who does have expertise in the area. If public teachers are saying they are having difficulties making ends meet, school boards are in the red across the province and our high school graduation rates are the lowest in the country - then yes I would target that area for increased funding.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/81-595-...g/c-g3-eng.htm

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Agent86

I would personally listen to the experts regarding how much money is required in order to give a child a proper education - I don't have those facts or figures in front of me - nor will I pretend to.

I don't have the numbers either. But judging from the Ritzy new CBE building, it doesn't look like they are strapped for cash.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I don't have the numbers either. But judging from the Ritzy new CBE building, it doesn't look like they are strapped for cash.

They did need to move into a new building - from all accounts the old building was outdated and way to small for the demands of the school board. Whether the decisions were made in an effective manner isn't up to me to decide but I suspect that some errors were made.

However because there were mistakes in the CBE you would be in favour of reduced spending for education across the province, which in turn has an even bigger impact on the children and adolescents in Calgary because there isn't that same funding due to the new building. And look at the budgets across Alberta they are all in the red, which indicates to me that funding isn't where it should be.

[Rathji]

Wait, so an organization has a new building and suddenly we should cut funding? If they would have built a run down, dilapidated building off the bat would you be satisfied?

I have long since given up on debating Social Return on Investment facts with people who are too engaged in their own self importance to understand that spending money to help people actually saves you money in the future. Lucky for most of the country, the people who are in charge and those who study these things realize how things really are.

[Ironhorse]

^ Very true, but I think we can all agree that the CBE is not exactly a model of efficiency, especially at the management and head office levels.