General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The problem with your logic is that there should be 10 times the bands, shows, conventions, with double or triple the shows per band that will play a city with 4.2M people rather than a city with 730,000 people.


Are the managers of the MTS centre just so much smarter than the managers of the PHx arenas? The people of Winnipeg have so much more entertainment $? The bands and shows just like Winnipeg as a venue so much more than Phx.


The absolute only reason that Phx would even be considered to have an NHL team in the first place is that there is more than 4 times the population of cities like Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Ottawa and Quebec.

Now you are telling me that this megalopolis that has a larger population than all of Alberta doesn't support basically anything!!!!


Wish the NHL would have gotten you to do the marketing study before they gave Phx a franchise.

Okay, so you're, I don't know, Ke$ha. If you can sell out 2 or 3 shows in a city of 4.2 million, are you gonna do the show at the convenient downtown location that everyone can get to, or are you gonna do it at the building that's out in the suburbs populated entirely with snowbirds and retirees who wouldn't go see your show anyway?

Regardless, they have made the playoffs now for three straight seasons. They are still giving away tickets to playoff games, and they still averaged about 6000 people per TV broadcast.

Stick a fork in them.

[troutman]

Excerpt Glendale AZ – Budget Workshop
April 17, 2012

Mayor Elaine Scruggs: So we were gonna have a deal… We had one or two that were pending… I don’t know… So 2011 comes along and there we are… a few days before D-day… the NHL is very generous is going to let us renew again for another $25 million… and for the first year I really strongly believed that I was doing the right thing… approving the $25 million. The second year I truly believed there was a deal… just around the corner… within days or weeks… That is what we were told…. Within days or weeks…. So I approved it again because we were never going to have to pay it…. As long as the sale was completed was before hockey season started in October, we would never have to pay that $25 million… Well they are coming to the door in the next few days to take tht $25 million… So here we are again at exactly the same time in 2012… and we have this deal and it is great and it is getting better by the hour… I haven’t seen a darn thing and a piece a paper… haven’t seen anything in front of me… This year I don’t believe it… I really don’t… and… to just go ahead…and then you say … you know… our world is going to come apart without the arena… to me … and I think to most of you that were here at the time… we didn’t get involved in this thing because we wanted to be a sports mecca… we didn’t get involved in this thing because we loved hockey…we got involved in this thing because we wanted commercial development in that area along the 101….instead of residential development… and that is all we were getting… was residential development… that is all anybody saw there. So the… the reason why we got involved in building an arena for a team… was to have an anchor for a commercial development… and we got the commercial development…or part of it… it didn’t go along as fast as … as everybody hoped…

[landshark]

just wow! Gee... I never would have guessed that a group of a couple of dozen wheelin' & dealin' billionaires would lead me astray!

My god! What a bunch of idiots! Putting a $300M boondoggle in the middle of nowhere seemed a like a great idea at the time.

What a mess!

Originally Posted by troutman

Excerpt Glendale AZ – Budget Workshop
April 17, 2012

Mayor Elaine Scruggs: So we were gonna have a deal… We had one or two that were pending… I don’t know… So 2011 comes along and there we are… a few days before D-day… the NHL is very generous is going to let us renew again for another $25 million… and for the first year I really strongly believed that I was doing the right thing… approving the $25 million. The second year I truly believed there was a deal… just around the corner… within days or weeks… That is what we were told…. Within days or weeks…. So I approved it again because we were never going to have to pay it…. As long as the sale was completed was before hockey season started in October, we would never have to pay that $25 million… Well they are coming to the door in the next few days to take tht $25 million… So here we are again at exactly the same time in 2012… and we have this deal and it is great and it is getting better by the hour… I haven’t seen a darn thing and a piece a paper… haven’t seen anything in front of me… This year I don’t believe it… I really don’t… and… to just go ahead…and then you say … you know… our world is going to come apart without the arena… to me … and I think to most of you that were here at the time… we didn’t get involved in this thing because we wanted to be a sports mecca… we didn’t get involved in this thing because we loved hockey…we got involved in this thing because we wanted commercial development in that area along the 101….instead of residential development… and that is all we were getting… was residential development… that is all anybody saw there. So the… the reason why we got involved in building an arena for a team… was to have an anchor for a commercial development… and we got the commercial development…or part of it… it didn’t go along as fast as … as everybody hoped…

[landshark]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Okay, so you're, I don't know, Ke$ha. If you can sell out 2 or 3 shows in a city of 4.2 million, are you gonna do the show at the convenient downtown location that everyone can get to, or are you gonna do it at the building that's out in the suburbs populated entirely with snowbirds and retirees who wouldn't go see your show anyway?

Not to derail the thread further, but I'm gonna guess that you don't live in a metro area with multiple concert venues - because central location is never the most important aspect of the decision. The venue that will lead to the most revenue is always the one chosen. Often, that means the newer one that's out in the 'burbs...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

This shows that Bettman has control of the vetting process.



http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...-biaggio_N.htm

What that shows, if accurate, is that Bettman went outside of the actual protocols in the Del Baggio situation, something I think he would deserve tremendous criticism for. Keep in mind that the two people upon whom's word this is based are a convicted felon and someone who's owed a significant sum of cash by that convicted felon.

What it also shows is that lenders and others with significant financial stakes involved consider the NHL to have a thorough vetting process, not just a 'run it by Gary' process.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Okay, so you're, I don't know, Ke$ha. If you can sell out 2 or 3 shows in a city of 4.2 million, are you gonna do the show at the convenient downtown location that everyone can get to, or are you gonna do it at the building that's out in the suburbs populated entirely with snowbirds and retirees who wouldn't go see your show anyway?

Regardless, they have made the playoffs now for three straight seasons. They are still giving away tickets to playoff games, and they still averaged about 6000 people per TV broadcast.

Stick a fork in them.

I think this is the relevant point, if they can't sell tickets to a pretty good winning team then it is not just location, Phoenix just doesn't want like or need a hockey team..

[valo403]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Okay, so you're, I don't know, Ke$ha. If you can sell out 2 or 3 shows in a city of 4.2 million, are you gonna do the show at the convenient downtown location that everyone can get to, or are you gonna do it at the building that's out in the suburbs populated entirely with snowbirds and retirees who wouldn't go see your show anyway?

Regardless, they have made the playoffs now for three straight seasons. They are still giving away tickets to playoff games, and they still averaged about 6000 people per TV broadcast.

Stick a fork in them.

If you're Ke$ha, or any other artist (with a few exceptions), you don't care where the show is held. You get paid your fee regardless.

The people who would care are the promoters, and if they can sell out 3 shows they don't care what arena they do it in. I don't know the regional demographics of Glendale vs other areas, but maybe they can attract talent that suits that particular market.

[hah]

Does anyone know if the Coyotes (tenant) pay any rent for use of the arena?

If so, how much do they pay to the City of Glendale ( Landlord).

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

What that shows, if accurate, is that Bettman went outside of the actual protocols in the Del Baggio situation, something I think he would deserve tremendous criticism for. Keep in mind that the two people upon whom's word this is based are a convicted felon and someone who's owed a significant sum of cash by that convicted felon.

What it also shows is that lenders and others with significant financial stakes involved consider the NHL to have a thorough vetting process, not just a 'run it by Gary' process.

Well in this case it was a 'run it by Gary' process which also appears to have been the case with the situations in Tampa, Buffalo and the Island or else they should be looking into firing the firm they use.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Now you're making a fool of yourself. Try google if you want to be clued in.

You're half right. Someone in your dogfight with valo403 is making a fool of himself. It isn't valo403 though.

Do everyone a favour and drop it, or take your pissing match to PM.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Well in this case it was a 'run it by Gary' process which also appears to have been the case with the situations in Tampa, Buffalo and the Island or else they should be looking into firing the firm they use.

Huh? What are you basing this on? Another opinion piece?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

You're half right. Someone in your dogfight with valo403 is making a fool of himself. It isn't valo403 though.

Do everyone a favour and drop it, or take your pissing match to PM.

Judging by your handle you should be used to this.
Hey, I've backed up my position in every case, that it's unpopular has nothing to do with it. Having done that, I'd be glad to drop the argument. If you haven't noticed it's been Valo who has been throwing insults at me while I've been pretty much respectful. If he wants to end this, cut with the insults.

[Jordan!]

Serious business up in here

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Hey, I've backed up my position in every case, that it's unpopular has nothing to do with it.

Yeah, 'cause referring everyone to Google whenever you're asked for sources is totally backing up your position.


Related: Former NHLer Steve Duchesne asked if he'd be interested in owning a team, say Phoenix.

His reply? Too late, they're going to Quebec City.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Yeah, 'cause referring everyone to Google whenever you're asked for sources is totally backing up your position.


Related: Former NHLer Steve Duchesne asked if he'd be interested in owning a team, say Phoenix.

His reply? Too late, they're going to Quebec City.

Once I referred him to google and than I did provide him with a couple of links. It's like arguing with some 13 year old girl who doesn't know the basics and he requires proof for well know facts. He's just being an ignorant jerk and you're no better.

I've provided support for every point I've made.

[Ryan Coke]

So I know Phoenix has attendance issues, but what are you talking about giving away tickets to playoff games?

[troutman]

Super secret: Ice Edge Holdings is not done with The Phoenix Coyotes yet - we love hockey and its fans


Keith McCullough ‏ @KeithMcCullough

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Once I referred him to google and than I did provide him with a couple of links. It's like arguing with some 13 year old girl who doesn't know the basics and he requires proof for well know facts. He's just being an ignorant jerk and you're no better.

I've provided support for every point I've made.

How about the claim I asked you to support in my last post?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by valo403

How about the claim I asked you to support in my last post?

It's pretty basic, if you don't know it you shouldn't be arguing the subject.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

So I know Phoenix has attendance issues, but what are you talking about giving away tickets to playoff games?

There are reports that Phoenix gave away a bunch of tickets for the 1st home game to make sure the arena was full. Other reports were some of the seats were going for $5 in promotion contests. I have no idea if it is true or not.