Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by browna

All this "listening to offers" is just BS. He knows what offers are out there and he's decided, probably. He can't say he's decided yet becuase the optics don't look great for the Flames fans if he says he's leaving without supposedly swayed by other offers which technically don't exist yet (but are there). He doesn't don't look good for the PA who wants to squeeze every $ out of the owners, if he doesn't pretend to look at offers on open market when it officially opens and stays with the Flames.

All the above doesn't provide any answers just theories on timing. If he really wanted to stay, and family geographic closeness was inconsequential, he would've said so by now, and if he really wanted to go and be near family over cementing a legacy and nothing and no amount of money could have him stay, he would've said that by now too...so it's somewhere in the middle, and it may be decided by now, but won't be announced until the market opens up, IMO.

The thing with these 'light-tampering' offers is that the world does not revolve around Johnny Gaudreau. I'm sure lots of teams have interest, but they aren't waiting patiently and putting all of their eggs into the Gaudreau basket. 2-3 days before UFA these 'offers' can be relied upon a lot more, which is why things will probably drag out until then. Unfortunately the Flames do have to more or less just wait patiently (at least once they've reached their absolute best/final offer)


And in a cap world, the PA shouldn't care about the distribution of player contracts - though I bet lots of them don't grasp that.

[camm13]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I'm expecting he signs, and he signs for less money than he could have asked and with the expectation that the money left on the table will be used to build team quality. Nothing has ever given me the impression that Johnny is about chasing the dollars. Johnny has always seemed like a guy who cares about more intrinsic goals and values than the number on his bank account. I doubt he makes it all about the money at this point.

I agree with this for the most part. Though, as I recall, his last contract took till the very last minute basically right before training camp was about to start to get it ironed out. And what's changed now is that he's married with a baby on the way. Dollars will matter here, just as much as whether the wife wants to live here for the next 7-8 years.

[mile]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1543107126515703809
Glad that he said that the Flames are willing to be flexible, that's an important detail

[Macman]

May be worth posting this in here because it’s relevant to Gaudreau and we shouldn’t expect him not to talk to other teams, it’s one time in your career.

When does NHL free agency start?

The market to sign free agents in 2022 begins on July 13 at noon ET.

Players that are unrestricted free agents (UFAs) can begin meeting and talking with teams on the day after the NHL Entry Draft, which will run from July 7-8.

(This from Brian Murphy from the Sporting News.)

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

The moderators won’t do anything about certain posters calling people they don’t agree with deplorable so this is what this site has come to.

That's nothing, I got called a basketcase by a guy who does nothing but insult other posters, reported it, and nothing. Hell, they didn't even edit his post. I get it's a thankless job but honestly why bother even having rules listed.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Macman

May be worth posting this in here because it’s relevant to Gaudreau and we shouldn’t expect him not to talk to other teams, it’s one time in your career.

When does NHL free agency start?

The market to sign free agents in 2022 begins on July 13 at noon ET.

Players that are unrestricted free agents (UFAs) can begin meeting and talking with teams on the day after the NHL Entry Draft, which will run from July 7-8.

I see this was posted by a writer from the Sporting News. However, unless the rule in the CBA was quietly changed, I believe they did away with the "interview period" (i.e. legal tampering) in 2020.

Not to say there aren't informal conversations happening, but this is the first I've heard of any official change.

[GioforPM]

There is no courting period any more - it’s embarrassing that SN doesn’t know this.

As for background discussions, everyone seems to assume they happen but I have yet to see or hear any evidence of this. GMs follow the rules and when they don’t they get fined and and other GMs also take informal action. What goes around comes around. Hell, Brian Burke blackballed Lowe for a legal move.

[dammage79]

Can't tell me they don't negotiate before FA opens. Regardless of the rules or not. They've dedicated FA frenzy day longer than the rules had been around. No way teams and players don't negotiate before the bell rings . Something like on average of 100m plus is spent on day 1 of fa. And a lot of that in the first couple of hours.

Rule or no rule, they know exactly where they're going before the bell rings on FA day.

In fact, I'd say its more a press embargo expiry Date.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Can't tell me they don't negotiate before FA opens. Regardless of the rules or not. They've dedicated FA frenzy day longer than the rules had been around. No way teams and players don't negotiate before the bell rings . Something like on average of 100m plus is spent on day 1 of fa. And a lot of that in the first couple of hours.

Rule or no rule, they know exactly where they're going before the bell rings on FA day.

In fact, I'd say its more a press embargo expiry Date.

If your sole evidence is that players sign massive contracts quickly when they get a chance I can’t say you’ve proven the case.

Plus a lot of talk is done with permission anyway, whether announced or not. Most guys who go UFA have been essentially let go by their team. The big ones who have had failed negotiations with their teams have been pretty public about what they wanted.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by mile

https://twitter.com/user/status/1543107126515703809
Glad that he said that the Flames are willing to be flexible, that's an important detail

Seems like the Flames are just waiting for a formal counter to close this deal but the Gaudreau camp hasn’t done that according to the insiders

[GioforPM]

Again, that Friedman post says next to nothing. “Wouldn’t be surprised” is just him guessing. The Flames being flexible is pretty much a given.

[Major Major]

It's a weird negotiating posture... We offer you this amount but if you want more, all you need to do is ask!

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Major Major

It's a weird negotiating posture... We offer you this amount but if you want more, all you need to do is ask!

Salary structure, signing bonuses, NMCs - there are lots of important details beyond the AAV. Flames are probably willing to give all of these at a lower AAV, but would claw some of them back as AAV rises.


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[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Can't tell me they don't negotiate before FA opens. Regardless of the rules or not. They've dedicated FA frenzy day longer than the rules had been around. No way teams and players don't negotiate before the bell rings . Something like on average of 100m plus is spent on day 1 of fa. And a lot of that in the first couple of hours.

Rule or no rule, they know exactly where they're going before the bell rings on FA day.

In fact, I'd say its more a press embargo expiry Date.

I doubt there are any detailed discussions until the day or two before the bell rings. Presently there might be some general expressions of interest, but both sides know how much things can change by the end of the draft.


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[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Major Major

It's a weird negotiating posture... We offer you this amount but if you want more, all you need to do is ask!

Yeah. Personally I feel the Flames wanted to get this done as quickly as possible so I don’t see the point of starting off with a low offer. At this point they have to have a good gauge on market value which is $10 million/season.

[browna]

Most of the info in the months/weeks/days leading up is through agents to agents, with GMs (and agents) knowing exactly how the machine works when they talk to an agent about a player or a general situation, and how it filters down to affected parties (and then back up to GMs from those same agents).

Details like exact $, or NMC terms etc may or may not be hammered out, and sure, something could change out of the blue which throws a player or a team in a different direction last minute, but JG's camp has known for a while, which teams out east will be going after him , and generally how much those offers would be.

Now if player x from that team or JG himself suddenly this week says his wife wants to move to Florida, or desired player y from another team suddenly becomes available to a team that had interest in JG and they can't afford both, things can change of course.

[Erick Estrada]

Yeah I think the holdup isn’t money and just a matter of where he wants to play.

[browna]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Salary structure, signing bonuses, NMCs - there are lots of important details beyond the AAV. Flames are probably willing to give all of these at a lower AAV, but would claw some of them back as AAV rises.


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Also, optics, no matter which way it goes, getting ahead of that now to shed both parties in a good light in a week and a half or so.

If he stays, the Flames can say:

"Ownership stepped up and added $750k a year to get it done and show commitment to JG and his family to and his desire and our desire for him to be a career-long Flame"

or

"Ownership was willing to add more but JG took less to help the cap situation to help improve the team in other areas"

If he goes, the Flames can say:

"Ownership was willing to add another $750k and beat the other offer but it was about family situation and not money for JG and we respect that".

[browna]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah I think the holdup isn’t money and just a matter of where he wants to play.

I think he really wants to play for the Flames and in Calgary for his entire career and would be a no brainer if tectonic plates shifting in the next 2 months meant Calgary was 1h away from Philadelphia and both sides of the family.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah I think the holdup isn’t money and just a matter of where he wants to play.

If he doesn’t want to be in Calgary I’d have hoped he’d tell them by now. Bargaining really isn’t productive in that case - he’s not driving up other offers.