Brad Treliving needs to go

[Roof-Daddy]

The Flames finished 2nd overall
But, they sputtered down the stretch and got creamed in the playoffs
That summer, Treliving traded Brodie and Jankowski for Kadri and Brown in an effort to bolster the top 6

As we all know, Kadri blocked the trade

Treliving didn't sit on his hands, that would have been a great deal for the Flames in hindsight, especially now that we've lost Brodie for nothing and had Jankowski completely stagnate and not even get qualified

Sure, I wish Treliving would have found another deal that summer, but if no other GM will step up and trade with you, what are you going to do? You can't force another GM to make a trade unless you're going to bend to his will and get fleeced.

And Treliving can't help it if the only decent top 6 C on the trade market has a NTC and won't waive to come to your team.

This is coming from someone who is not happy with the Flames, and is certainly not a Treliving apologist.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The Flames finished 2nd overall
But, they sputtered down the stretch and got creamed in the playoffs
That summer, Treliving traded Brodie and Jankowski for Kadri and Brown in an effort to bolster the top 6

As we all know, Kadri blocked the trade

Treliving didn't sit on his hands, that would have been a great deal for the Flames in hindsight, especially now that we've lost Brodie for nothing and had Jankowski completely stagnate and not even get qualified

Sure, I wish Treliving would have found another deal that summer, but if no other GM will step up and trade with you, what are you going to do? You can't force another GM to make a trade unless you're going to bend to his will and get fleeced.

And Treliving can't help it if the only decent top 6 C on the trade market has a NTC and won't waive to come to your team.

This is coming from someone who is not happy with the Flames, and is certainly not a Treliving apologist.

And that clearly is a disadvantage for those teams facing those realities.
In a cap world, trades are tough enough to complete. Now if you have a bunch of players in the league who won't come to your team - that's a problem.

We hear just today of another such example of Manson not being willing to get to Winnipeg.

No player is rejecting a trade to New York, Chicago, Vegas, Florida, LA, Toronto etc.

Must be nice.

Ultimately you can only play the hand you are dealt but when we consider why Canadian teams don't win cups - this is part of the reason.

They don't have the same opportunity to improve - via free agency and increasingly even via trade.

[Jimdon]

I think Treliving's trade record is good, the trades he makes to recoup assets and the trades he makes to swap players are hard to complain about for the most part. His ability to sign his own players for reasonable contracts and cap hits has been one of his biggest strengths as well. Signing free agents has been hit and miss, and when he misses he misses big, spending big money on players that have had negative impacts on the team.

But we are where we are now. When he took over we were an up and coming team with a core that was still growing and developing. Today we have a core that should be in its prime and has already shown signs of regressing. We lost our captain and best defenseman for nothing in a season where we had no success and didn't make the playoffs.

I personally don't see a path for this team to become a true contender. Adding either would be nice but probably is a pipe dream and there's about as big of a chance that it blows up in our face as it does make us a lot better.

I'm tired of cheering for a team that doesn't have a future and doesn't seem to pit much effort on the ice. Change for the sake of change would be better than being stuck in purgatory. IMO take a wild swing and if it doesn't work you restart at the bottom.

[Macindoc]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

I think Treliving's trade record is good, the trades he makes to recoup assets and the trades he makes to swap players are hard to complain about for the most part. His ability to sign his own players for reasonable contracts and cap hits has been one of his biggest strengths as well. Signing free agents has been hit and miss, and when he misses he misses big, spending big money on players that have had negative impacts on the team.

But we are where we are now. When he took over we were an up and coming team with a core that was still growing and developing. Today we have a core that should be in its prime and has already shown signs of regressing. We lost our captain and best defenseman for nothing in a season where we had no success and didn't make the playoffs.

I personally don't see a path for this team to become a true contender. Adding either would be nice but probably is a pipe dream and there's about as big of a chance that it blows up in our face as it does make us a lot better.

I'm tired of cheering for a team that doesn't have a future and doesn't seem to pit much effort on the ice. Change for the sake of change would be better than being stuck in purgatory. IMO take a wild swing and if it doesn't work you restart at the bottom.

You are talking about spending assets that would be needed for a rebuild, so the Flames would not even be starting at the bottom (in the sense of a team being a lottery team with its own first round picks in the next 3-4 drafts), they would be years away from even getting to that point if the organization spent the kind of assets the Sabres are demanding. Overpaying for an asset of questionable value is a clear path to many more years of mediocrity. Only trades that improve the overall assets of the organization should be considered. Change for the sake of change is the path to ruin.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Who are these people that don't want any change at all that people keep referring to?

Read the post I responded to.
I used hyperbole to respond in kind to hyperbole. There are no posters who want to trade everyone, all the time either.

The point is that changes could have been made to the top line and that doesn't require blowing up the whole thing.
Many indications that changes were needed were there for many seasons (or post seasons) now.
The people who didn't see the signs want to pretend they didn't exist, but clearly many many people saw them.

[Finger Cookin]

It's September next week. Camp opens in 3-4 weeks. Is it too soon to call the offseason over yet? The moves we can expect between now and camp are PTO signings. If anyone was waiting until the offseason was quote-unquote over before feeling it was fair to assess Treliving since the end of last season, I'd say you're good to go.

[Flamesfan05]

I guess keep this thread until Treliving is gone?

Pretty sure he is not going anywhere for this season

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

You are talking about spending assets that would be needed for a rebuild, so the Flames would not even be starting at the bottom (in the sense of a team being a lottery team with its own first round picks in the next 3-4 drafts), they would be years away from even getting to that point if the organization spent the kind of assets the Sabres are demanding. Overpaying for an asset of questionable value is a clear path to many more years of mediocrity. Only trades that improve the overall assets of the organization should be considered. Change for the sake of change is the path to ruin.

You aren't going to be seeing an elite Flames team for a number of years (who knows how many). Belief otherwise will just lead to disappointment.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm just not willing to just assume that there were some fantastic deals available that Calgary's GM either didn't recognize, or got scared and didn't pursue.

They didn’t have to be fantastic deals to be worth making.

Here’s the choice confronting a GM looking to move a devalued or declining asset:

1) Take a deal offered now, knowing it’s less than you want and you’ll be criticized by fans and the media.

2) Wait for a better deal, knowing the asset is likely to devalue even further over time.

Option 2 is a strategy of hope (or desperation) over reason. Of kicking the problem down the road and hoping fate intervenes to save you.

The Flames are hardly the only professional sports franchise to employ that strategy. But they employ it more than most.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

And that clearly is a disadvantage for those teams facing those realities.
In a cap world, trades are tough enough to complete. Now if you have a bunch of players in the league who won't come to your team - that's a problem.

We hear just today of another such example of Manson not being willing to get to Winnipeg.

No player is rejecting a trade to New York, Chicago, Vegas, Florida, LA, Toronto etc.

Must be nice.

Ultimately you can only play the hand you are dealt but when we consider why Canadian teams don't win cups - this is part of the reason.

They don't have the same opportunity to improve - via free agency and increasingly even via trade.

All true. Which is why small-market Canadian teams need to build patiently through the draft. The problem is owners who refuse to recognize that logic.

I know Winnipeg hasn’t won anything, but at least they seem to have an ownership and management group who recognize the handicaps they labour under and how they need to operate to try to find long-term success.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

It's September next week. Camp opens in 3-4 weeks. Is it too soon to call the offseason over yet? The moves we can expect between now and camp are PTO signings. If anyone was waiting until the offseason was quote-unquote over before feeling it was fair to assess Treliving since the end of last season, I'd say you're good to go.

Karlsson deal was similar to this. The Eichel deal will get done to somewhere...and there may be a small handful of trades that were blocked by it (I doubt it). There are also the Joe Colborne type deals out there I am sure.

In other words..if the Eichel chip wasn't floating out there, then yes, the offseason is over in my opinion.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Tre needs to go. There is no plan and he can't get a deal across the goal line. I appreciate the challenges a guy may face, but you still have to make things happen to improve the club. Treliving's club is moving in the wrong direction and it does not appear to be any plan to move the team forward.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

They didn’t have to be fantastic deals to be worth making.

Here’s the choice confronting a GM looking to move a devalued or declining asset:

1) Take a deal offered now, knowing it’s less than you want and you’ll be criticized by fans and the media.

2) Wait for a better deal, knowing the asset is likely to devalue even further over time.

Option 2 is a strategy of hope (or desperation) over reason. Of kicking the problem down the road and hoping fate intervenes to save you.

The Flames are hardly the only professional sports franchise to employ that strategy. But they employ it more than most.

It is not just a strategy of hope. Lots of players, at the ripe old age of 26, manage to recover from injury-riddled seasons. Especially under improved coaching.

Treliving has a little more information on the subject than you do, and pretending you have knowledge of the outcome just exposes your bias.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Tre needs to go. There is no plan and he can't get a deal across the goal line. I appreciate the challenges a guy may face, but you still have to make things happen to improve the club. Treliving's club is moving in the wrong direction and it does not appear to be any plan to move the team forward.

I generally think Treliving has been a bottom-tier GM since the off-season of 2018. Almost everything that has happened after the Hamilton/Lindholm trade has been bad. It has been a painful stretch of management since that transaction.

Now, he has about 25 days left before camp opens and I’m firmly in the pro-Eichel camp. If he can acquire Eichel then my excitement level pops right back up. Barring that though? I’m looking for one of two things: Treliving can go down the scorched Earth path and actually manage this team proactively, or they can relieve him of his duties because he’ll have clearly shown he can’t improve this team for the “now” while also not being able to build the team for the future.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by tkflames

Karlsson deal was similar to this. The Eichel deal will get done to somewhere...and there may be a small handful of trades that were blocked by it (I doubt it). There are also the Joe Colborne type deals out there I am sure.

In other words..if the Eichel chip wasn't floating out there, then yes, the offseason is over in my opinion.

Seeing as how Karlsson has been mentioned I wonder if anyone has thought how people compare his decline with how Eichel will decline from a broken neck. Do teams still take the chance he will be good, or do they wait until they see if he returns to normal.

[bax]

Is a herniated disc equivalent to breaking your neck now?

Karlsson had major surgery to his Achilles and has a long list of groin issues which has really hampered his skating- arguably his most important skill.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by bax

Is a herniated disc equivalent to breaking your neck now?

Karlsson had major surgery to his Achilles and has a long list of groin issues which has really hampered his skating- arguably his most important skill.

Herniated Disc (Slipped Disc): A vertebral compression fracture occurs when the block-like part of an individual bone of the spine (vertebra) become compressed due to trauma. Discs are protective shock-absorbing pads between the bones of the spine (vertebrae).

A crack (not only a break) in the bone is also known as a fracture.

Broken Neck!

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Herniated Disc (Slipped Disc): A vertebral compression fracture occurs when the block-like part of an individual bone of the spine (vertebra) become compressed due to trauma. Discs are protective shock-absorbing pads between the bones of the spine (vertebrae).

A crack (not only a break) in the bone is also known as a fracture.

Broken Neck!

If it’s really a broken neck, he is worth nothing

[taxbuster]

Oof. Just read the Athletic's blurb on the general and fan base opinion of the Flames front office, and it's not flattering. Ranked 24th in the league not surprisingly because whatever plan they have is ...well...no plan that's obvious.

Beats me what Tre is doing other than pegging down a pretty good salary and not doing much to improve the team. Unless something breaks before training camp this is going to be a dismal year.

[Hackey]

If you think this year is dismal, wait until next year when Johnny leaves and Tkachuk accepts his qualifying offer.