Truther - Controlled Demolition is the only thing that could have happened.
Skeptic - 10 paragraphs of a well thought-out rebuttal with math and links to back it up.
Truther - You are good at math but This one "expert" says so.
Skeptic - 10 paragraphs of a well thought out rebuttal and links to back it up that prove that the "expert" is nothing but a crazy person.
Truther - You obviously didnt read what the guy was saying. I am Right.
Skeptic - 10 paragraphs of a well thought out rebuttal that shows even more links that outline the fallacy of the Truthers argument.
Truther - I am right (response getting shorter and shorter).
Honestly, you truthers can believe whatever you want, but at least provide some solid evidence to your viewpoint or just bow out of the thread. You are getting your butts handed to you in this argument.
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I guess my big dissapointment is the misunderstanding of the debate. The Truther movement is built around theory and long reaching without much more then speculation and really bad science to back it up. They bring out the experts, but these experts are shakey at the best, or really unrelated at the worst. ( I remember the aeropace expert that was marched out on the pentagon wreckage that was found who was emphatic that it didn't match the plane that should have hit the Pentagon, but in the end the guy worked in the marketing department).
The question that Truthers need to ask is, if you were a lawyer, would you be comfortable arguing your case in a court of law, would you be comfortable with your witnesses being cross examined.
Just by going by the continual remodifications of Loose Change, Alex Jones backing off of the thermite theory, I would think that the substantative answer would probably be no.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Not that I believe these theory's, but I have a question. Why hasn't the video of the plane hitting the Pentagon ever been released? It's one of the most secure buildings in the world with video cameras everywhere, and we get one time laps video of and explosion? Why aren't they releasing that video?
I would think there are a few things that might contribute to that. One of the main things: there just might not be that much useful footage out there.
Think of what security cameras outdoors generally try to capture: doors, walls, entry points of the building, the building itself. I don't think they'd have a bunch of cameras trained on the horizon. Any cameras filming open spaces would probably be up high, looking down.
Second, they're usually trying to capture images of people, etc. Therefore, they don't need to have a super high frame rate. Now have a jet scream through the narrow field of vision of the frame at 550 miles per hour and that 0.5 fps camera won't capture much, if anything.
edit: There may be some more videos that have been suppressed, sure. But I would be surprised if they had anything better or more interesting than what's been released. I don't see any reason why they'd have cameras set up to capture this kind of attack any better than what we've seen. Furthermore, if they did go through all this trouble to kill thousands of people to go to war to kill thousands more, create a huge conspiracy involving tens of thousands of people spanning decades, etc, etc don't you think they'd set up an extra security camera or two conveniently trained on the right spots to put nonsense like this to rest?
If I were running a conspiracy plot (and god willing one day I will be) this is exactly how I'd keep it under wraps. Release just enough information to let the radical elements go nuts on me because as soon as they start talking most people's eye just glaze over and brains go into full ignore mode.
Sort of like PETA. No one is pro-animal abuse, but when PETA starts on up with their cheap publicity stunts, celebrity endorsements and crazier ideas (http://www.geekologie.com/2010/01/ba..._punxsutaw.php) I just lose any interest.
I would think there are a few things that might contribute to that. One of the main things: there just might not be that much useful footage out there.
Think of what security cameras outdoors generally try to capture: doors, walls, entry points of the building, the building itself. I don't think they'd have a bunch of cameras trained on the horizon. Any cameras filming open spaces would probably be up high, looking down.
Second, they're usually trying to capture images of people, etc. Therefore, they don't need to have a super high frame rate. Now have a jet scream through the narrow field of vision of the frame at 550 miles per hour and that 0.5 fps camera won't capture much, if anything.
edit: There may be some more videos that have been suppressed, sure. But I would be surprised if they had anything better or more interesting than what's been released. I don't see any reason why they'd have cameras set up to capture this kind of attack any better than what we've seen. Furthermore, if they did go through all this trouble to kill thousands of people to go to war to kill thousands more, create a huge conspiracy involving tens of thousands of people spanning decades, etc, etc don't you think they'd set up an extra security camera or two conveniently trained on the right spots to put nonsense like this to rest?
Why would they need to release more footage? They released the piece of footage that showed a plane hitting the pentagon. Anything extra would be un neccessary.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Why would they need to release more footage? They released the piece of footage that showed a plane hitting the pentagon. Anything extra would be un neccessary.
If I were running a conspiracy plot (and god willing one day I will be) this is exactly how I'd keep it under wraps. Release just enough information to let the radical elements go nuts on me because as soon as they start talking most people's eye just glaze over and brains go into full ignore mode.
Sort of like PETA. No one is pro-animal abuse, but when PETA starts on up with their cheap publicity stunts, celebrity endorsements and crazier ideas (http://www.geekologie.com/2010/01/ba..._punxsutaw.php) I just lose any interest.
So part of the conspiracy is to release just enough information to support the conspiracy but not too much information to prove the conspiracy... damn... brilliant... they thought of everything.
They got thousands of people to also go along with this... this just get's better and better.
So part of the conspiracy is to release just enough information to support the conspiracy but not too much information to prove the conspiracy... damn... brilliant... they thought of everything.
They got thousands of people to also go along with this... this just get's better and better.
I know, right?
Actually my first mistake was making a semi serious post in a thread like this. I should know better.
Hey hey... What's with the resurgence in serious posts all of a sudden?! This thread had nicely derailed into a mockery of conspiracists, and people are trying to get it back on track?! When you're arguing with G20 protestor types, you know there's no point in being serious.
To be serious, beliefs are often informed and motivated by very low level thoughts and desires.
Some people have a desire to be contrary (just like other people have a desire to fit in), some people have a desire to be free of any kind of control (just like other people like having other people be responsible for things).
I think these basic things influence our thoughts and beliefs to a great degree, and if we aren't careful it's very easy for cognitive biases to come into play and basically give us the information we need to let ourselves believe something, despite the rightness or wrongness of the information.
I don't think that there's any question that there are people out there who desire power and that power corrupts. I don't doubt that governments often try to erode personal liberties for their own goals. I don't doubt that governments do things and try to hide those things from their people (for good and bad reasons).
And there's so much that goes on in the world that we we simply cannot understand. Not just because it's not understandable, but simply because we don't have all the information. And in some cases it may not be understandable right now, emergent behaviours out of systems happens all the time, there's no reason that shouldn't happen in society and governments.
So for CTers and NWOers, I don't see it being a measure of intelligence or craziness, I see it as cognitive bias combined with basic personality traits combined with the brain's desire to understand (and its ability to create a belief and believe it rather than abide the unknown).
I guess maybe because I've seen these same things in other areas in my own mind in the past.
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If I were running a conspiracy plot (and god willing one day I will be) this is exactly how I'd keep it under wraps. Release just enough information to let the radical elements go nuts on me because as soon as they start talking most people's eye just glaze over and brains go into full ignore mode.
Sort of like PETA. No one is pro-animal abuse, but when PETA starts on up with their cheap publicity stunts, celebrity endorsements and crazier ideas (http://www.geekologie.com/2010/01/ba..._punxsutaw.php) I just lose any interest.
I keep getting a flashback to 1984 and the Department of Truth, where the main character turned a hero to a traitor with a flick of a pen.
I'd forgotten what a great story that was.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
In 100 more years everyone who saw anything or knew anything about 9/11 will be deed dead!
EDIT: I scanned the video and I didn't see anything in it which would indicate that they've demonstrated anything with regards to statistical significance.
I assume you can provide that Beerfest, since you seem to be making and supporting the claim?
Please demonstrate that their result set is statistically significant. Show your work.
Truther - Controlled Demolition is the only thing that could have happened.
Skeptic - 10 paragraphs of a well thought-out rebuttal with math and links to back it up.
Truther - You are good at math but This one "expert" says so.
Skeptic - 10 paragraphs of a well thought out rebuttal and links to back it up that prove that the "expert" is nothing but a crazy person.
Truther - You obviously didnt read what the guy was saying. I am Right.
Skeptic - 10 paragraphs of a well thought out rebuttal that shows even more links that outline the fallacy of the Truthers argument.
Truther - I am right (response getting shorter and shorter).
Honestly, you truthers can believe whatever you want, but at least provide some solid evidence to your viewpoint or just bow out of the thread. You are getting your butts handed to you in this argument.
I am enjoying every second of reading this thread. Keep it up Truthers!!!
See, now this is just the kind of thing makes people roll their eyes at this kind of "proof".
The goofy music, spelling mistakes, unsubstantiated and irrelevant facts about a few of the thousands of witnesses to this event... Just a trace amount of critical thinking should have anyone questioning the validity of pretty much anything suggested in this film.
The one about Major General David Wherly -- according to the video this guy made the call to scramble air force jets in Washington on 9/11. We all know that happened. Nobody ever tried to cover that up. It wasn't a secret, ever.
The movie you posted basically says he was murdered in a staged train crash eight years after the fact, ominously adding that the train was "under automatic, rather than manual, control".
Does this not seem ridiculous to you, for several reasons? It should. It should seem ridiculous to anybody. I mean think about it, just for a minute.
If you want to believe it was an inside job or a conspiracy or whatever, go nuts, but you aren't going to convince anybody of anything with this kind of dimwitted garbage.
Well since everyone in the world is involved in the conspiracy except for the strident, brave and insightfull Truthers, I would say that the numbers favor the forces of evil.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I like how there's no comments anymore and they're just posting random youtube videos to back up their crumbling points. Two can play at that game. Watch this video, I think it will answer all your questions:
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