This is a rebuild

[howard_the_duck]

I finally watched the presser. I must say I was a little surprised to see the comments around former Flames contracts. Conroy’s comments certainly indicated very real attempts to re-sign their guys and that their numbers were higher than what the players ended up signing for. We know this to be the case for Lindholm but potentially for Zadorov/Toffoli too?

Also the comments around willingness to trade first round picks for young players. It does contradict what their actions have demonstrated, but I can’t help but worry that impatience from ownership will be a factor as early as next offseason.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

We know this to be the case for Lindholm but potentially for Zadorov/Toffoli too?

Also the comments around willingness to trade first round picks for young players. It does contradict what their actions have demonstrated, but I can’t help but worry that impatience from ownership will be a factor as early as next offseason.

Tanev, Zadorov, and Toffoli were traded because the Flames weren't interested in the term they wanted.
As for trading picks for young players, they are targeting 18-23 year old players with upside. Those guys usually aren't available unless they are demanding trades.

[stemit14]

It’s very exciting going into this season. It’s always a different, more relaxed attitude towards the team in the first year of the rebuild - by “first year” I mean the first year where it is accepted by both management and fans. The year is more about development and hard work than it is about wins/making the playoffs. The last season that felt like this was 2013-2014. The flames had just drafted Monahan. The previous season, they traded Iginla and Bouwmeaster. Kipper had just retired. There were a few veterans around to guide the young guys trying to learn the NHL game (Cammalleri and Hudler for example). That year, the flames were considered the “hardest working team in hockey” in the sense that they didn’t win many games but games against them were rarely easy for other teams (that was the season with the opening face off brawl against the Canucks). I hope that kind of hard work and pack mentality are adopted this upcoming season.

The rebuild is off to a good start with lots of great prospects in the system and tons of picks over the next two years (including 4 first round picks right now). Conroy has done a fantastic job of turning their prospect depth on defence from a weakness to a strength in the span of just a year. I think that’s really smart in terms of setting a team up to progress out of a rebuild instead of getting stuck in one like Buffalo/Edmonton. Defensemen typically take longer to develop into impact NHLers when compared to forwards. So getting quality defencemen in the system early allows time for them to develop while the flames (hopefully) get some skilled centermen in the next couple drafts.

The timing could potentially work out great. Between Parekh, Brz, Morin, Poirier, Soloyov, Mews and Grushnikov… hopefully 2-3 of them develop into top four defencemen. I might even be forgetting someone that should be included in that list. If the depth on defensive prospects reaches their potential, it would likely time out when the flames are on the upswing out of the rebuild (hopefully around 2027). The flames have plenty of potential at forward as well in the system right now… in the form of skilled complementary pieces with guys like Zary, Coronato, Honzek, Klapka, Stromgren, Gridin, Lipinski, Basha and Mesa. Again, I’m probably forgetting some others that should be included. In any case… the next step is to get some franchise centres in their next few drafts - easier said than done of course. It takes a lot of luck to get those in the draft. The dream of course is to get McKenna in 2026 and they might have a real shot at that. Here’s hoping both Calgary and Vegas’s picks are in that lottery.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Flyers are trending down and rebuilding. Their D and goaltending isn’t any better than the Flames. It’s hard to see the Penguins avoiding sliding to the bottom of the conference. Neither team has done anything in free agency.

The Flyers also just signed Matvei Michkov. They haven't made any major additions but they'll be more competitive than Calgary. So will Pittsburgh.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

McDavid isn't hitting free agency full stop. He gave up over ten million on his last contract and Edmonton is still going to be a contender next year after which they can sign him to an extension. It ain't happening.

Draisaitl could choose to go elsewhere, but he's not getting more money or moving to a stronger contender elsewhere so I don't see that either

Seems unlikely with their contracts coming up...If Drai, McDavid, and Bouchard sign GL building a roster. Drai could easily get more money too.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The Flyers also just signed Matvei Michkov. They haven't made any major additions but they'll be more competitive than Calgary. So will Pittsburgh.

Crosby, Malkin, and Letang (and Eller) are all over 35. Karlsson will be 35 next time a team wins the Stanley Cup. The Penguins' roster as a whole is the second oldest in the league, and has been bleeding picks and prospects for years.

Looks to me like the bottom could fall out in Pittsburgh at any time.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Crosby, Malkin, and Letang (and Eller) are all over 35. Karlsson will be 35 next time a team wins the Stanley Cup. The Penguins' roster as a whole is the second oldest in the league, and has been bleeding picks and prospects for years.

Looks to me like the bottom could fall out in Pittsburgh at any time.

I could see that for Pittsburgh as well. A poor start to the season and the media will be non-stop speculating on trading Crosby. And the speculation will likely be directed towards the Avalanche because of the McKinnon connection. Feels very much like the flames in 2012-2013 when they traded Iginla. They ended up picking 5th overall that year (Monahan).

[TheScorpion]

I highly doubt they ever move Crosby. There's a chance he becomes the first player ever to score 2,000 points with a single team.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I highly doubt they ever move Crosby. There's a chance he becomes the first player ever to score 2,000 points with a single team.

I hope they don’t. And I doubt they will as well… he’s an icon to that franchise and to the league. But until they extend him… the Canadian sports media will be constantly speculating on it.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I highly doubt they ever move Crosby. There's a chance he becomes the first player ever to score 2,000 points with a single team.

I agree. But they might throw in the towel and recoup some assets for the likes of Letang and Karlsson while they can.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I could see that for Pittsburgh as well. A poor start to the season and the media will be non-stop speculating on trading Crosby. And the speculation will likely be directed towards the Avalanche because of the McKinnon connection. Feels very much like the flames in 2012-2013 when they traded Iginla. They ended up picking 5th overall that year (Monahan).

Monahan was 6th, Lindy was 5th (Carolina)

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The Flyers also just signed Matvei Michkov. They haven't made any major additions but they'll be more competitive than Calgary. So will Pittsburgh.

Rookies almost never move the needle on a team’s place in the standings. Fantilli was a can’t miss prospect who was projected as NHL ready. Didn’t stop the Jackets from being terrible last season. I know you love your prospects, but unless Michkkov is the second coming of Crosby, it’s unlikely he’ll have a major impact as a rookie.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I agree. But they might throw in the towel and recoup some assets for the likes of Letang and Karlsson while they can.

That ship has sailed. The Pens are riding its overpaid, aging roster straight to Sharks-land.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I agree. But they might throw in the towel and recoup some assets for the likes of Letang and Karlsson while they can.

Never say never but those contracts don't look easy to move and I'm not sure the Penguins would be getting much back in assets.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I highly doubt they ever move Crosby. There's a chance he becomes the first player ever to score 2,000 points with a single team.

That would require 100 points per season from 37 through 40. Not happening. So he would have to play until he was 43 or 44, which I can't see happening either. Crosby is the kind of guy who will hang them up when he isn't elite anymore.

Like most, I expect he'll stay a Penguin, but he isn't hanging on until he hits 2,000 points.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Rookies almost never move the needle on a team’s place in the standings. Fantilli was a can’t miss prospect who was projected as NHL ready. Didn’t stop the Jackets from being terrible last season. I know you love your prospects, but unless Michkkov is the second coming of Crosby, it’s unlikely he’ll have a major impact as a rookie.

Even Zary + Pospicil probably moved the Flames 2-3 draft spots.
Michkkov doesn't have to be rookie Selane to keep Philly above the Flames.

Pittsburgh will also be better than the Flames though they're in a terrible midling position.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Rookies almost never move the needle on a team’s place in the standings. Fantilli was a can’t miss prospect who was projected as NHL ready. Didn’t stop the Jackets from being terrible last season. I know you love your prospects, but unless Michkkov is the second coming of Crosby, it’s unlikely he’ll have a major impact as a rookie.

In fact, in Crosby's rookie season the Pens finished 2nd last in points (missed last by one point). And there was a huge gap between them and the 3rd worst team.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That ship has sailed. The Pens are riding its overpaid, aging roster straight to Sharks-land.

Which will the get them another version of Crosby/Lemieux.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Pittsburgh and Washington are the two teams that look like they can have a very hard plunge in the standings this year.

I still think that their talent will be too high to plunge lower than the Flames. Everyone in the basement has taken a step forward this year compared to last year. I don't see a team that didn't improve from the bottom 10 from the start of last season, other than the Flames. The Flames are literally the only team that have gotten significantly worse, unless I am missing something. They finished 9th with a very easy schedule to close out the season.



I have them finishing bottom 3 this year, and probably 2nd worst. I wonder if San Jose will have enough quality this year to creep out of last place. Chicago I think - as long as they stay healthy this season - will move up. Anaheim is a bit of a question mark for me, but they have a very deep talent pool now, and should make some strides. Utah got defence and better overall. Columbus doesn't have to worry about the Babcock situation, and I think they will progress.



After the lottery, I will be shocked if the Flames aren't picking somewhere between 1st and 5th overall this draft (and I think 5th would involve some bad luck with teams jumping the Flames). There will be a high-end core player added (at least one). Pittsburgh and Washington are the only closest teams that I have as potential fallers. Washington has been putting band-aids on their rosters trying to keep it going, so I think it will be harder for them to fall down the standings. Pittsburgh is a bigger question mark to me. I don't think Crosby gets traded, but there is some real noise for people hoping for a rebuild. I don't think it happens this year though.

[blankall]

The Flames would have been bottom 5 if Markstrom hadn't played as well as he did. The Flames also had Mangiapane, Lindholm, Tanev, and Hanifin playing on their team for most of last season. Unless Wolf emerges as a legit #1, playing behind much crappier defence, the Flames should finish much worse.

That being said, it would be hard to have a worse season than the Sharks had last year, and that team doesn't look much better. Plus there's bound to be another couple of teams who unintentionally out-crap the bed compared to Calgary (possibly Columbus again).

Would really love to see the Flames finish 2nd or 3rd last, but they'll probably find a way to finish #5-6 last. Or, more accurately, a team like Montreal, Ottawa, Columbus, etc.. will find a way to lose despite trying their best to win.