Barn Burner: The Boys are Back!! (Boomer, Pinder & Warrener)

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Maybe Rhett does or doesn't understand defensive metrics, but he was a player for a long time and I have no doubt he can recognize when a player is giving 100%, and when they aren't. I didn't see the effort, except for at the tail end of the season, which does give me some hope for next season I suppose.

Huberdeau was last on the team for controlled zone entries amongst forwards. Even if it was just Sutter's system, it doesn't explain why he was last among his peers. I just didn't see intensity from him, except on rare occasions. If it was just the system holding him back, I would still expect to see more individual effort. Guys like Toffoli, Lindholm, and even Kadri for 2/3rds of the season didn't seem to have a problem at least on the GAF meter.

I recognize that Rhett's opinion is confirmation bias for how things looked to me as well and respect that others can have different conclusions, but I just didn't see it.

Seemed odd to me that when Huberdeau's agent spoke up Huberdeau suddenly has a game where he was all fired up. When they asked him about I he blamed the agent for getting him going. Then shortly after he was back to being okay. I think we should be shopping Kadri and not Lindholm because you want a positive influence for the young guys. Keep Kadri and I bet that adds to losing Lindholm.

[RM14]

Haha, what a quote!

NSFW!

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I dunno, while agree with the ultimate point of Rhett's that we need to blow things up, I think he is giving far too much credit/cover for Sutter and he wasn't even trying to follow Boomer/Pinders point about why the players aren't signing right now.

Each guy is in a little different situation, so the fact that they are UFAs a year from now with the cap going up then is a huge factor. Add in the Gaudreau factor and it was such a crappy year, there are decent reasons for these guys not to sign now that aren't directly tied to the room.

[dino7c]

There are TONS of player with one year left that aren't signing with their current teams


It's pile on the Flames summer

[Burning Beard]

Sutter specifically mentioned that Lindholm "has to like" who he is playing with and then we never saw him with Huberdeau again. That was in the first month of last season. Something stinks in that room and it lined up with the new acquisitions.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Sutter specifically mentioned that Lindholm "has to like" who he is playing with and then we never saw him with Huberdeau again. That was in the first month of last season. Something stinks in that room and it lined up with the new acquisitions.

Just to play devils advocate here
But
Perhaps it’s possible that the new guys couldn’t believe how comfortable the underachieving clique was and that was the long term problem that was trying to be addressed

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by RM14

Haha, what a quote!

NSFW!

The opportunity was right there to pivot into a full rebuild following Johnny's departure, but it seems the temptation to try and stay competitive was too much to overcome. Lesson learned... (hopefully)

[fenix_sk]

Originally Posted by Burning Beard

Sutter specifically mentioned that Lindholm "has to like" who he is playing with and then we never saw him with Huberdeau again. That was in the first month of last season. Something stinks in that room and it lined up with the new acquisitions.

Yep, this is the one I keep coming back to as well. It was the beginning of a look into something being wrong in the dressing room, and it is heavily implied, that Lindholm did not want to play on a line with Huberdeau. Hubey is a puck distributer that would really compliment Lindy, so it seems like Lindholm not liking Huberdeau is the only reason.
Not saying it's Huberdeau's fault entirely, but it makes sense that Lindholm would not want to sign here long term, and really makes it seem like Huberdeau might be part of the issue in the room.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Have to take anything Sutter said with a grain of salt he was lost last year and probably was the main reason for any division in the room.

Was Lindholm happy playing with a rookie?

Guy used the media to push his agenda all season.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Have to take anything Sutter said with a grain of salt he was lost last year and probably was the main reason for any division in the room.

Was Lindholm happy playing with a rookie?

Guy used the media to push his agenda all season.

If the players are not getting along, and the room is divided, rallying together against an A Hole coach is one possible and perhaps the easiest solution to create some unity. As critical as I’ve been of Sutter, it really sounds like the problems ran deeper and existed before Sutter took over.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by soreshins

Or he bailed because he knew he’d messed up big style and it was better to leave now than get fired later? Happens ALL the time in business.

Alot of people speculated that when Maurice resigned from the Jets too. He knew his days were coming to an end and leaving on his terms made him look better.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by RM14

Haha, what a quote!

NSFW!

Still not over that we were out of a playoff spot and our GM, who knew he wasn't coming back, sat on his hands and didn't deal with a single one of those 6. How much more valuable would all of those guys had been with a playoff run + year of control as opposed to now where they're just a rental. Thanks Tre.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

If the players are not getting along, and the room is divided, rallying together against an A Hole coach is one possible and perhaps the easiest solution to create some unity. As critical as I’ve been of Sutter, it really sounds like the problems ran deeper and existed before Sutter took over.

Yeah but that's when his boys Lewis Lucic and Toffoli should have grabbed the locker room but it doesn't sound like they did.

That's why having no captain and using the assistant as someone to bash probably ruined everything.

That's what happens when he wanted to be the captain and face of the franchise.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fenix_sk

Yep, this is the one I keep coming back to as well. It was the beginning of a look into something being wrong in the dressing room, and it is heavily implied, that Lindholm did not want to play on a line with Huberdeau. Hubey is a puck distributer that would really compliment Lindy, so it seems like Lindholm not liking Huberdeau is the only reason.
Not saying it's Huberdeau's fault entirely, but it makes sense that Lindholm would not want to sign here long term, and really makes it seem like Huberdeau might be part of the issue in the room.

I think that was part of it, but I doubt it was personal. Huberdeau just doesn’t match up well against other teams top defenders and I think that irritated Lindholm. He’s a point producer but not a 1st line player. Second line and and on the top power play is where he belongs just like in Florida.

He has shown that he can put up 1st line points without being on a top line, but he is probably the most high maintenance player in the league and needs to managed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think that was part of it, but I doubt it was personal. Huberdeau just doesn’t match up well against other teams top defenders and I think that irritated Lindholm. He’s a point producer but not a 1st line player. Second line and and on the top power play is where he belongs just like in Florida.

He has shown that he can put up 1st line points without being on a top line, but he is probably the most high maintenance player in the league and needs to managed.

Oh common the most high maintenance player in the league?

Show us proof of your ridiculous claim.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Oh common the most high maintenance player in the league?

Show us proof of your ridiculous claim.

It’s an opinion and doesn’t require proof.

If you want evidence, how about the fact that he had the biggest point drop off in history and couldn’t adjust? His drop off was literally historical. It’s a prettt common opinion not just here but even when he was in Florida that he needs exactly the right kind of line mates and heavily managed deployment to be successful.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It’s an opinion and doesn’t require proof.

If you want evidence, how about the fact that he had the biggest point drop off in history and couldn’t adjust? His drop off was literally historical. It’s a prettt common opinion not just here but even when he was in Florida that he needs exactly the right kind of line mates and heavily managed deployment to be successful.

It's really not and you have no proof like you said it's your opinion and terrible one.

Can you show is how players who had drops have been deployed? Did they get treated like trash by a coach who was trying to send a message? Did the to go from 20 minutes to hardly hitting 16 a night?

Let's see some breakdowns android opinions from these people who said he needs the perfect linemates and coach?

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Rhett subtlely insinuated that the new guys may be the problem, when they came in everything went sideways and now all the old crew with contracts ending want out. If that's the case (no idea if it is but it's not like guys are screaming they want to stay) then you probably just have to cut bait, even retain if needed like you said. Right now Huby is unmovable but he will bounce back and then you can probably do it.

This seemed so obvious, but everyone really wanted to be believe Sutter was the problem.

Weager, Huby and Kadri have been most vocal about wanting a new coach. They also are new players in the room. And they are the players with term and big money.

We know someone in the organization used a bunch of dirty tactics including media leaks and agent leaks to paint Sutter as the bad guy.

We also know there were player vs player issues in the dressing room. There were no issues the season prior, so the problem is clearly some faction of the old players disliking some faction of the new players.

Logically speaking, hiring Maloney to decide what the problem was so stupid because:

1) Maloney and Tre brought in the three new core players and signed them to term. Thus he is biased towards his players.

2) Maloney has an axe to grind against Sutter because he's Tre's buddy and Tre left because of Sutter.


So Maloney chooses Huby, Kadri and Weager over some faction of the old guard. And now some faction of the old guard wants out. Sounds about right

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

This seemed so obvious, but everyone really wanted to be believe Sutter was the problem.

Weager, Huby and Kadri have been most vocal about wanting a new coach. They also are new players in the room. And they are the players with term and big money.

We know someone in the organization used a bunch of dirty tactics including media leaks and agent leaks to paint Sutter as the bad guy.

We also know there were player vs player issues in the dressing room. There were no issues the season prior, so the problem is clearly some faction of the old players disliking some faction of the new players.

Logically speaking, hiring Maloney to decide what the problem was so stupid because:

1) Maloney and Tre brought in the three new core players and signed them to term. Thus he is biased towards his players.

2) Maloney has an axe to grind against Sutter because he's Tre's buddy and Tre left because of Sutter.


So Maloney chooses Huby, Kadri and Weager over some faction of the old guard. And now some faction of the old guard wants out. Sounds about right

None of the garage you are saying is true.

All we know is you are an either Darryl or a Sutter family member.

[jayswin]

I love FlamesAddiction's Huberdeau hate. Everyone has that one player they end up sounding crazy while describing. And that's his.