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Old 08-22-2022, 01:38 PM   #461
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Originally Posted by Vinny01 View Post
With the Leafs having Reilly, Muzzin, Gio all left shots I am not sure where Hanifin fits there as they already have Brodie as a left shot on his offside.

Ya, because the leafs are always thinking rationally
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Old 08-22-2022, 01:40 PM   #462
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Flames have 3 top 4 D who are right shots in Anderson, Weegar and Tanev. Not sure why they are adding another who is pending UFA in the 28 year old Dumba?
Without Hanifin, Weegar very likely slides over to the left side? He might anyways with Hanifin here.

Dumba might be a cheap add as he hasn't done much the last couple year

Weegar - Andersson
Kylington - Tanev
Zadorov - Dumba

Seems fine to me. Odds are the return on Hanifin would be much greater than the cost to acquire Dumba. Get a top 6 forward for Hanifin you could flip Dube and Valimaki in a deal for Dumba. Minnesota will need cost controlled players for the next 3 years until those buyouts come down.
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Old 08-22-2022, 01:42 PM   #463
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So we're getting rid of Hanifin who plays top pairing minutes for $4.5M to get Dumba, who makes $6M and putting him on the bottom pair.
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Old 08-22-2022, 01:43 PM   #464
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That doesn’t make remote sense to me. You have a $6M cap hit on the third pair. I also don’t think Dumba is going to be nearly as cheap to acquire as you seem to think
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Old 08-22-2022, 01:48 PM   #465
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Some people get caught up in the excitement of the shiny new toy, or the fun of making trades and don't put a lot of thought into the acquisition cost, salary cap or usage.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:02 PM   #466
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Some people get caught up in the excitement of the shiny new toy, or the fun of making trades and don't put a lot of thought into the acquisition cost, salary cap or usage.
Doesn't have to be all today.

Hanifin for Barzal now - probably more details and who adds is up for debate but Barzal is a righty and could slide to the wing and play first line RW which IMO is needed and his speed with Lindholm and Huberdeau is a huge addition. Also gives us center depth in case of injuries.

Dumba could be a mid season/TDL target to give use more depth at d. Or you pay a bit more for salary retained.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:02 PM   #467
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Every other team beat the Oilers other than us and LA.
By ‘every other team’, you mean ‘Colorado, the Stanley Cup champions and the best all-round team in the league’?

I don't recall the likes of Buffalo or Arizona or Seattle beating Edmonton in the playoffs. But sure, ‘every other team’ beat the Oilers.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:15 PM   #468
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Why do people equate trading Hanifin to dumping Hanifin

Look at the return we got for Dougie Hamilton including Hanifin

If you believe Hanifin is your 3rd or even 4th best and most valuable D and you can deal him to a team where he is their 2nd, you can extract more value and build a stronger team

If you believe Hanifin is , or will develop to be one of your two most important D, you keep him

I don’t think he is as good as the other 3 guys and think is a great opportunity to extract value and improve the team
Hanifin is 25, Tanev is 32. Tanev has been unbelievable for us, the last couple years. But his game is going to start to slide eventually, and he just reconstructed his shoulder.

We don't yet know which of Hanifin or Andersson is going to be better. And we don't yet know what Kylington is. If Andersson and Kylington continue to improve, then maybe there is room to trade Hanifin next year.

But right now, he is a key part of our D. And as I said, there is a chance we see a large drop off from Tanev.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:18 PM   #469
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Yeah, I don’t get why including a player in trade scenarios = firing him into the sun or hating him. If you want get a good player back in a trade, you have to give up a good player. If all you’re willing to move out is marginal NHLers and depth guys (ie Valimaki, Dube), then all you should expect back are marginal NHLers and depth guys.
Because all the talk has been about how Hanifin played against the Oilers. A good chunk of the posters proposing him in trade deals are motivated by a desire to get rid of him.

If you don't believe me, look it this way: he and Andersson are the same age, basically the same contract, and pretty similar in current skill level and value. Also, the Flames are currently stronger on the right side than the left IMO (debatable, I know). Yet not a single trade proposal has been made suggesting we ship Andersson out for a winger.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:24 PM   #470
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Because all the talk has been about how Hanifin played against the Oilers. A good chunk of the posters proposing him in trade deals are motivated by a desire to get rid of him.

If you don't believe me, look it this way: he and Andersson are the same age, basically the same contract, and pretty similar in current skill level and value. Also, the Flames are currently stronger on the right side than the left IMO (debatable, I know). Yet not a single trade proposal has been made suggesting we ship Andersson out for a winger.
I disagree. I think part of the reason why Hanifin comes up over Andersson is the contract. Stats suggest Hanifin is every bit as good as Seth Jones, Zach Werenski, Darnel Nurse are. Andersson has 4 years at $4.6 mil so he does not need to be elite because he is not paid to be elite.

Hanifin and his agent could very well be looking at the contracts of the above 3 and thinking, why not my me? I'm not excited about Hanifin at or around $9 mil.

We can keep Hanifin for sure he has 2 years left but he is a flight risk and his next contract is why some are ok with the idea of trading him. Not because we think Rasmus is significantly better or putting all the blames on Hanifin for sucking against the Oilers
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:26 PM   #471
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In 2 years the flames have a lot of contracts coming up and guys will be moving on while others getting huge pay raises.

Currently that group includes: Lindholm, Hanifin, Kylington, Backlund, Toffoli, Zadorov, Dube (RFA), Tanev. I do hope and suspect next summer there will some decisions made as most of these guys are UFA. Lindholm they likely try and extend a year out and I do think 1 or more of these guys will be traded so they are not all lost for nothing. If Schwindt, Zary or Ruzicka take big steps maybe Bscklund is dealt? Maybe Hanifin or Kylington are moved if the cost to re-sign is going to be too much. Maybe Toffoli is moved if Pelletier or Coronato look like they can step in?

This summer was crazy but the next 2 will be very interesting.

Not that I want to trade Hanifin but I was looking at teams that may be interested and saw the Kraken as a potential fit. Francis drafted Noah so there is familiarity there. The Kraken have 3 2nd round picks next year so I wonder if a Eberle + 2 2nds in 23 would maybe make sense? Gives the flames some chips at the deadline OR gives them 3 2nds of their own in a really deep draft to try and restock the prospect pool that was just ranked 28th on the Athletic
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:27 PM   #472
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We can keep Hanifin for sure he has 2 years left but he is a flight risk
Oh, yeah, I forgot. American hockey players are the spawn of Satan and only exist to screw Canadian franchises over. Therefore they must all be expelled from the game.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:35 PM   #473
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Oh, yeah, I forgot. American hockey players are the spawn of Satan and only exist to screw Canadian franchises over. Therefore they must all be expelled from the game.
Flight risk is part of it. $9 mil a year is part 2. Or can you give some feedback on what you think his next contract is? $8.5 mil or higher is my guess. Lots depends on his play this year as well.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:36 PM   #474
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In 2 years the flames have a lot of contracts coming up and guys will be moving on while others getting huge pay raises.

Currently that group includes: Lindholm, Hanifin, Kylington, Backlund, Toffoli, Zadorov, Dube (RFA), Tanev. I do hope and suspect next summer there will some decisions made as most of these guys are UFA. Lindholm they likely try and extend a year out and I do think 1 or more of these guys will be traded so they are not all lost for nothing. If Schwindt, Zary or Ruzicka take big steps maybe Bscklund is dealt? Maybe Hanifin or Kylington are moved if the cost to re-sign is going to be too much. Maybe Toffoli is moved if Pelletier or Coronato look like they can step in?

This summer was crazy but the next 2 will be very interesting.

Not that I want to trade Hanifin but I was looking at teams that may be interested and saw the Kraken as a potential fit. Francis drafted Noah so there is familiarity there. The Kraken have 3 2nd round picks next year so I wonder if a Eberle + 2 2nds in 23 would maybe make sense? Gives the flames some chips at the deadline OR gives them 3 2nds of their own in a really deep draft to try and restock the prospect pool that was just ranked 28th on the Athletic
I think Tanev and Toffoli are very uncertain. Tanev will be 34. Toffoli is yet to fit into the lineup. Backlund will be signed for less money.

At the other end of the list, Lindholm is #1 priority, and then probably Hanifin. Dube will just be a question of cost. Kylington and Zadorov are total question marks.

So if your point was that Hanifin is tradable because there will be a lot of UFAs in 2 years, I don't think that is much of an argument.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:38 PM   #475
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Flight risk is part of it. $9 mil a year is part 2. Or can you give some feedback on what you think his next contract is? $8.5 mil or higher is my guess. Lots depends on his play this year as well.
If you think he is worth $8.5M, and he still has 2 years left at $4.95M, then trading him is a terrible idea.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:40 PM   #476
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Flight risk is part of it.
Hanifin is no more of a flight risk than any other player who's two years away from UFA. So no, that isn't part of anything.

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$9 mil a year is part 2. Or can you give some feedback on what you think his next contract is? $8.5 mil or higher is my guess.
He's not getting a contract that big unless he earns it. If he earns it and gets it, no problem. If he doesn't earn it he won't get it, also no problem.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:41 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by Vinny01 View Post
In 2 years the flames have a lot of contracts coming up and guys will be moving on while others getting huge pay raises.

Currently that group includes: Lindholm, Hanifin, Kylington, Backlund, Toffoli, Zadorov, Dube (RFA), Tanev. I do hope and suspect next summer there will some decisions made as most of these guys are UFA. Lindholm they likely try and extend a year out and I do think 1 or more of these guys will be traded so they are not all lost for nothing. If Schwindt, Zary or Ruzicka take big steps maybe Bscklund is dealt? Maybe Hanifin or Kylington are moved if the cost to re-sign is going to be too much. Maybe Toffoli is moved if Pelletier or Coronato look like they can step in?

This summer was crazy but the next 2 will be very interesting.

Not that I want to trade Hanifin but I was looking at teams that may be interested and saw the Kraken as a potential fit. Francis drafted Noah so there is familiarity there. The Kraken have 3 2nd round picks next year so I wonder if a Eberle + 2 2nds in 23 would maybe make sense? Gives the flames some chips at the deadline OR gives them 3 2nds of their own in a really deep draft to try and restock the prospect pool that was just ranked 28th on the Athletic
I don't think the Flames are worried about the ranking of their prospect pool by the moves they have made. Eberle is not an upgrade on our top wingers and make more money than Hanifin. It better be the Jets and Kraken 2nd's as I feel like the return for Hanifin is garbage.

Didn't you just say Valimaki and Dube wouldn't snag Dumba yet Hanifin is getting us that? I get the 2023 draft is deep but we are talking picks that could be around 40th overall. Those players are years away from playing and will be maybe nice to have in the back end of Kadri and Huberdeau's deals. Right when this team might be in serious trouble and in a full rebuild.

Hanifin out Eberle in would dramatically make this team worse now
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:42 PM   #478
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The 2019 Blues had Bouwmeester
The 2020-2022 Lightning had McDonagh


I see Hanifin in the same vein as those players - not a #1 D, but still an important piece a contender needs
Funny how when we signed Bouwmeester as an UFA, we proceeded to miss the playoffs for the next 4-5 years IIRC.
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:45 PM   #479
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If you think he is worth $8.5M, and he still has 2 years left at $4.95M, then trading him is a terrible idea.
I didn't say he's worth $8.5 mil, that is just what I think he will get.

Nurse worth $9 mil? Nope, but that is what he is getting paid.

Tell me your thoughts on what Hanifin is getting? $7 mil? Really doubt it comes in at something starting with a 7
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Old 08-22-2022, 02:45 PM   #480
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No interest in trading a 50pt Dman for a 50pt forward.
12 pages later, and this is still the crux of the argument.

So how many point does the forward need to have (or project to) to make this worthwhile? 60? Probably not enough to make up for the positional difference. 70? Maybe! 80? Now we're talking!

But Noah Hanifin is also $5M AAV for the next two seasons, and while we have $2M in cap this year to absorb an increase, next year it gets tight again. So we need a guy who provides good cap value. So now we're looking for, approximately, a 70+ point RW who's signed for at least two years at ~5M AAV. Otherwise, Hanifin is the better asset.
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