Sanctions incoming. This will end up with people dying and Russia facing boatloads of sanctions and hurting their own economy. Germany has halted certifications for a natural gas pipeline from Russia which is something the US has wanted them to do for a while. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/b...a-germany.html
Will also raise energy prices in the EU... Which have already been increasing.
Our prices have already gone up and I'm bracing for more of an increase. But it's a small price to pay to get the EU of Putin's energy teet. Where I live in Poland the country isn't dependent on Russian gas since they still burn coal here (bleh) as a way to not be energy dependent on Russia and apparently have done so for years. Will be interesting to see if prices go up even further here because of this, if at all.
Other EU countries will be hit harder I'm sure. But from what I have seen and read on various EU news sources and broadcasts, most people are fully onboard with shutting down NS2 and paying extra, if it means hitting back at Russia. Most Europeans know what's at stake here and have been prepping for a while.
Last edited by Huntingwhale; 02-22-2022 at 07:21 AM.
Sanctions incoming. This will end up with people dying and Russia facing boatloads of sanctions and hurting their own economy. Germany has halted certifications for a natural gas pipeline from Russia which is something the US has wanted them to do for a while. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/22/b...a-germany.html
Will also raise energy prices in the EU... Which have already been increasing.
Time to start crackin' some atoms!!
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Ballsy moves by the west might result in nuclear war. Putin feels cornered and looked unusually unstable in this speech. He specifically mentioned that US missiles could reach Moscow in 5 minutes, if based in east Ukraine. Ballsy moves is the last thing we need. The west needs to do something to calm him down.
Why is it Putin can make as many ballsy moves as he wants but then if anyone wants to retaliate they are made out to be the aggressor?
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Canada could fill a big void here if we were able to provide LNG.....avoid war, etc.
Germany's natural gas stores are only 31% full.
Man have we ever screwed up. 20 years of incompetence.
Sometimes it feels like Canada's government is afraid to take a global leadership role.
Like why not flat out advertise ourselves as the premier energy alternative to liberal democracies who want to avoid doing business with Putin and other unsavory actors.
Russian actions, however disgusting they are, are defensive and made out of fear. It's all happening at Russian doorsteps, not US doorsteps. Every Russia's aggressive move was in response. Crimea annexation didn't happen out if the blue, but rather after a coup. Now this is happening because US has quit several key defensive agreements (which by the way is another truth in generally phony speech). Putin feels cornered.
This is just nonsense. It's obviously the sentiment Putin wants to raise, but just logically this makes absolutely no sense. There is possibly no time in Russian history that it has been less under threat of invasion than it is right now, and certainly no time since WW1.
The western political alliance is all but destroyed. US is alienated from Europe and UK is barely in speaking terms with the rest of Europe, and undergoing a rather massive internal economic crisis due to Brexit. Europe is undergoing an economical crisis and internal divisions in many countries are high. EU's popularity is fairly weak and main point of debate is things like climate change.
United Nations, traditionally a center of American and European political influence on global politics, is so irrelevant people are starting to forget they exist.
Much of the west has shrunk the size of their armies after the Cold War and more importantly refocused them towards ability to operate as parts of international "peacekeeping" operations rather than traditional national conflicts.
The US civilian will to wage war is probably lower than at any point in US history, and that country is so deeply politically divided that large chunks of their political decision making apparatus is effectively paralyzed, while people have been starting to seriously consider the odds of a civil war breaking out.
NATO is a mess after Trump and Brexit, and has recently lost an extremely geopolitically important ally in Turkey. Just in it's general political influence over the Middle East is also probably close to a historic low in the post-world war era. Heck, US political influence is probably at an all time low just in general. Trump era destroyed much of US diplomatic core and embassy system through a combination of ideological cleansing, conflict seeking, rampant nepotism and sheer ignorance.
Germany and Netherlands are extremely dependent on Russian energy imports, which makes them unable to even throw really strong words towards Russia, again making the threat of NATO mostly a non-issue.
There is just absolutely no threat whatsoever towards Russia at the moment or in the near future.
Which is why they are about to conquer a part or all of Ukraine.
The western powers have been given all the time in the world to respond, and most of the response is Biden holding a few press conferences. There's nothing even resembling a unified response, not even in any one country internally, let alone collectively. Putin put forces on the borders probably expecting an extremely weak response, and he's been right so far. He can let his forces take all the time in the world to prepare for what he wants to do, because there is no force building up on the other side. Heck, this assault is basically paid by the western countries with the money flowing towards Russia through the gas pipelines.
The west for the most part can't even agree on the topic of weapons trade with Ukraine. Putin has only been doubling down since this crisis began, with his latest declaration pretty clearly saying that no one west of Russia is safe.
The situation in is a reminder that extremely old school politics of power never went anywhere.
Russia is doing what it's doing because it can. That's all there is to it, there is no need to look for motivation beyond that. It's what major military powers have done throughout history, and will continue to do until the end of time. The rest is just rhetorics.
They see a chance to pick off all or part of Ukraine with the best tool they have for the job, which is their combination of military strength and energy exports. They see a chance to increase their sphere of influence, so they're doing it.
Putin has already clearly said that Finland, Belarus, the Baltics and everyone other small nation west of them should expect more Russian pressure in the future. All of us need to consider what we're going to do when Russia picks it's next target. I hope the EU and US get their #### together before that, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen soon enough to save Ukraine.
Power politics are also not going to go away just because Putin will eventually retire, die (or be killed, which is statistically a very common end to dictators). Great powers are going to do what great powers do, tomorrow and a hundred years from now. The world has been turning away from democracy and diplomacy in the 21st century, and this is just what naturally follows.
I wish we would turn back from this trend. I have a bit of hope that maybe Russia showing it's expansionist and militaristic intentions will snap the western countries out of their infighting. (But if I had money to bet with, I would bet against that.)
(Luckily for me, while Finland is clearly on Putins list of countries to try to bring under his control, we're probably very close to the bottom of that list.)
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Sometimes it feels like Canada's government is afraid to take a global leadership role.
Like why not flat out advertise ourselves as the premier energy alternative to liberal democracies who want to avoid doing business with Putin and other unsavory actors.
Because that disagrees with their stated Climate Change goals. They certainly can’t see the global benefits and are looking at their own local targets instead.
Luckily I don’t think Putin’s anxious to #### around and find out again with Finland. Russia’s probably tired of Finns handing them their ass anytime they try their crap.
Some clarification: Russia recognize rebel republics in their current borders. NOT in their original borders, which were twice as big. That's at least some relief.
Contrary to yesterday's reports, today Putin said that Russia recognize rebel republics with original borders of those regions. Which means that Ukraine now "occupies" half of it
Contrary to yesterday's reports, today Putin said that Russia recognize rebel republics with original borders of those regions. Which means that Ukraine now "occupies" half of it
Ukraine occupying it's own land. Lol. Rich.
Kenyas ambassador delivers a brilliant speech.
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Luckily I don’t think Putin’s anxious to #### around and find out again with Finland. Russia’s probably tired of Finns handing them their ass anytime they try their crap.
Unfortunately Putin is a lot more competent than most Russian monarchs/dictators.
This is just nonsense. It's obviously the sentiment Putin wants to raise, but just logically this makes absolutely no sense. There is possibly no time in Russian history that it has been less under threat of invasion than it is right now, and certainly no time since WW1.
The western political alliance is all but destroyed. US is alienated from Europe and UK is barely in speaking terms with the rest of Europe, and undergoing a rather massive internal economic crisis due to Brexit. Europe is undergoing an economical crisis and internal divisions in many countries are high. EU's popularity is fairly weak and main point of debate is things like climate change.
United Nations, traditionally a center of American and European political influence on global politics, is so irrelevant people are starting to forget they exist.
Much of the west has shrunk the size of their armies after the Cold War and more importantly refocused them towards ability to operate as parts of international "peacekeeping" operations rather than traditional national conflicts.
The US civilian will to wage war is probably lower than at any point in US history, and that country is so deeply politically divided that large chunks of their political decision making apparatus is effectively paralyzed, while people have been starting to seriously consider the odds of a civil war breaking out.
NATO is a mess after Trump and Brexit, and has recently lost an extremely geopolitically important ally in Turkey. Just in it's general political influence over the Middle East is also probably close to a historic low in the post-world war era. Heck, US political influence is probably at an all time low just in general. Trump era destroyed much of US diplomatic core and embassy system through a combination of ideological cleansing, conflict seeking, rampant nepotism and sheer ignorance.
Germany and Netherlands are extremely dependent on Russian energy imports, which makes them unable to even throw really strong words towards Russia, again making the threat of NATO mostly a non-issue.
There is just absolutely no threat whatsoever towards Russia at the moment or in the near future.
Which is why they are about to conquer a part or all of Ukraine.
The western powers have been given all the time in the world to respond, and most of the response is Biden holding a few press conferences. There's nothing even resembling a unified response, not even in any one country internally, let alone collectively. Putin put forces on the borders probably expecting an extremely weak response, and he's been right so far. He can let his forces take all the time in the world to prepare for what he wants to do, because there is no force building up on the other side. Heck, this assault is basically paid by the western countries with the money flowing towards Russia through the gas pipelines.
The west for the most part can't even agree on the topic of weapons trade with Ukraine. Putin has only been doubling down since this crisis began, with his latest declaration pretty clearly saying that no one west of Russia is safe.
The situation in is a reminder that extremely old school politics of power never went anywhere.
Russia is doing what it's doing because it can. That's all there is to it, there is no need to look for motivation beyond that. It's what major military powers have done throughout history, and will continue to do until the end of time. The rest is just rhetorics.
They see a chance to pick off all or part of Ukraine with the best tool they have for the job, which is their combination of military strength and energy exports. They see a chance to increase their sphere of influence, so they're doing it.
Putin has already clearly said that Finland, Belarus, the Baltics and everyone other small nation west of them should expect more Russian pressure in the future. All of us need to consider what we're going to do when Russia picks it's next target. I hope the EU and US get their #### together before that, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen soon enough to save Ukraine.
Power politics are also not going to go away just because Putin will eventually retire, die (or be killed, which is statistically a very common end to dictators). Great powers are going to do what great powers do, tomorrow and a hundred years from now. The world has been turning away from democracy and diplomacy in the 21st century, and this is just what naturally follows.
I wish we would turn back from this trend. I have a bit of hope that maybe Russia showing it's expansionist and militaristic intentions will snap the western countries out of their infighting. (But if I had money to bet with, I would bet against that.)
(Luckily for me, while Finland is clearly on Putins list of countries to try to bring under his control, we're probably very close to the bottom of that list.)
This gets at what is concerning about this. You are going back to imperial powers just invading for the hell of it. China can watch this and go after Taiwan. Hell - the US could go off the deep end and come after us if they wanted to, nothing we could do to stop it.
This gets at what is concerning about this. You are going back to imperial powers just invading for the hell of it. China can watch this and go after Taiwan. Hell - the US could go off the deep end and come after us if they wanted to, nothing we could do to stop it.
Generally speaking countries invade their enemies, not their allies. It's not like there's a shortage of politically unstable and militarily weak countries in southern America.
The only ones to raise a stink if US would invade, say, Venezuela, would be Russia and China.
If the big three three ever decide their interests are actually allied, things would get grim for probably for a lot of smaller countries very quickly.
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This gets at what is concerning about this. You are going back to imperial powers just invading for the hell of it. China can watch this and go after Taiwan. Hell - the US could go off the deep end and come after us if they wanted to, nothing we could do to stop it.
I don't think that China has the sea lift, or amphibious assault capability yet to actually invade Taiwan.
If they were going after Taiwan, they would simply level it and force Taiwan to surrender. But its likely that there would be a strong American Naval response to something like that.
While China's Navy has undergone a strong modernization program as have their airforce, and they now have I think one modern carrier and one not so modern carrier in use, and they've upgraded their submarine capability, its likely that the American's could do some real damage to China in their own backyard.
I'm not as worried about China going after Taiwan as they go after the resource rich areas to the south like the Spratley Islands (sp?).
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Ukraine’s Ministry of Defense reported at 7 am Kyiv time that in the last 24 hours, two Ukrainian soldiers were killed and eighteen Ukrainian soldiers were wounded in action. In the last 24 hours, Russian-terrorist forces opened fire on Ukrainian positions on the Luhansk and Donetsk sectors of the front 84 times in total, including at least 64 times with heavy weapons – artillery, tanks and mortars.
EU prepares sanctions in response to Russian aggression against Ukraine
The European Commission stated, “The decision of the Russian Federation to recognise as independent entities and send Russian troops to certain areas of Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts is illegal and unacceptable. It violates international law, Ukraine's territorial integrity and sovereignty, Russia's own international commitments and it further escalates the crisis.
Both Presidents welcome the steadfast unity of Member States and their determination to react with robustness and speed to the illegal actions of Russia in close coordination with international partners.
An informal meeting of EU Foreign Affairs Ministers chaired by the High Representative will take place today at 4 pm. Following that, a first package of sanctions will be formally tabled later this afternoon.
Appropriate bodies will then meet to finalise the package without delay.
The package contains proposals:
· to target those who were involved in the illegal decision,
· to target banks that are financing Russian military and other operations in those territories,
· to target the ability of the Russian state and government to access the EU's capital and
financial markets and services, to limit the financing of escalatory and aggressive policies,
· and to target trade from the two breakaway regions to and from the EU, to ensure that
those responsible clearly feel the economic consequences of their illegal and aggressive
actions.
The EU has prepared and stands ready to adopt additional measures at a later stage if needed in the light of further developments.”
This is just nonsense. It's obviously the sentiment Putin wants to raise, but just logically this makes absolutely no sense. There is possibly no time in Russian history that it has been less under threat of invasion than it is right now, and certainly no time since WW1.
The western political alliance is all but destroyed. US is alienated from Europe and UK is barely in speaking terms with the rest of Europe, and undergoing a rather massive internal economic crisis due to Brexit. Europe is undergoing an economical crisis and internal divisions in many countries are high. EU's popularity is fairly weak and main point of debate is things like climate change.
United Nations, traditionally a center of American and European political influence on global politics, is so irrelevant people are starting to forget they exist.
Much of the west has shrunk the size of their armies after the Cold War and more importantly refocused them towards ability to operate as parts of international "peacekeeping" operations rather than traditional national conflicts.
The US civilian will to wage war is probably lower than at any point in US history, and that country is so deeply politically divided that large chunks of their political decision making apparatus is effectively paralyzed, while people have been starting to seriously consider the odds of a civil war breaking out.
NATO is a mess after Trump and Brexit, and has recently lost an extremely geopolitically important ally in Turkey. Just in it's general political influence over the Middle East is also probably close to a historic low in the post-world war era. Heck, US political influence is probably at an all time low just in general. Trump era destroyed much of US diplomatic core and embassy system through a combination of ideological cleansing, conflict seeking, rampant nepotism and sheer ignorance.
Germany and Netherlands are extremely dependent on Russian energy imports, which makes them unable to even throw really strong words towards Russia, again making the threat of NATO mostly a non-issue.
There is just absolutely no threat whatsoever towards Russia at the moment or in the near future.
Which is why they are about to conquer a part or all of Ukraine.
The western powers have been given all the time in the world to respond, and most of the response is Biden holding a few press conferences. There's nothing even resembling a unified response, not even in any one country internally, let alone collectively. Putin put forces on the borders probably expecting an extremely weak response, and he's been right so far. He can let his forces take all the time in the world to prepare for what he wants to do, because there is no force building up on the other side. Heck, this assault is basically paid by the western countries with the money flowing towards Russia through the gas pipelines.
The west for the most part can't even agree on the topic of weapons trade with Ukraine. Putin has only been doubling down since this crisis began, with his latest declaration pretty clearly saying that no one west of Russia is safe.
The situation in is a reminder that extremely old school politics of power never went anywhere.
Russia is doing what it's doing because it can. That's all there is to it, there is no need to look for motivation beyond that. It's what major military powers have done throughout history, and will continue to do until the end of time. The rest is just rhetorics.
They see a chance to pick off all or part of Ukraine with the best tool they have for the job, which is their combination of military strength and energy exports. They see a chance to increase their sphere of influence, so they're doing it.
Putin has already clearly said that Finland, Belarus, the Baltics and everyone other small nation west of them should expect more Russian pressure in the future. All of us need to consider what we're going to do when Russia picks it's next target. I hope the EU and US get their #### together before that, but it doesn't look like it's going to happen soon enough to save Ukraine.
Power politics are also not going to go away just because Putin will eventually retire, die (or be killed, which is statistically a very common end to dictators). Great powers are going to do what great powers do, tomorrow and a hundred years from now. The world has been turning away from democracy and diplomacy in the 21st century, and this is just what naturally follows.
I wish we would turn back from this trend. I have a bit of hope that maybe Russia showing it's expansionist and militaristic intentions will snap the western countries out of their infighting. (But if I had money to bet with, I would bet against that.)
(Luckily for me, while Finland is clearly on Putins list of countries to try to bring under his control, we're probably very close to the bottom of that list.)
I hear you. Russia acts unpredictably and recklessly and some could argue Putin has lost his marbles. The response from the west doesn't appear to be firm enough to stop it. Since I want peace asap, I myself would like some overwhelming power to put Putin back into his place or better yet out of his place. For people in neighboring countries it may well look as if Russia does as it please and West is too weak to contain it.
Still this is not the case. Out of 14 former USSR republics (Russia itself being 15th), Putin has only attacked Georgia and Ukraine. He could have easily annex Kyrgyzstan and the west would do nothing for them, but he never did. He only went after two countries where coups toppled his allies and replaced them with some western-oriented guys. Georgia (Rose revolution) and Ukraine (Maidan nezalezhnosti). Why? Because he needs to respond. He needs to retailate to western-backed protesters toppling his allies. He fears the same destiny at home and went very hard after inner opposition when it did look as if USA is trying to set up a kind of rose revolution in Russia. Annexation of Crimea happened immediately after the Ukrainian coup. He didn't annex Crimea just for the hell of it. He felt he had to respond. He needed to show the West, that he's strong and decisive.
The lands he has claimed so far are almost worthless, Crimea naval base notwithstanding. Abhazia is a poor rural place. South Osetia is just an area in the mountains. Donbass is so devastated, it would require billions to be restored. Once it does, it will become just another area in Russia, like Orel, Kursk or Voronezh. We have no shortage of land. Even Crimea, that used to be prime summer holidays place, dare I say USSR's Florida, is not any popular without Iron Curtain. Russians much prefer Turkey and Egypt. Even Sochi is much better than Crimea.
None of Putin's land acquisitions worth it. They are actually net drain on economy, even if there was no sanctions. Those lands were never the goal.
The world never paid attention, but Russians DID freak out at every NATO expansion. The illegal bombings of Kosovo enraged Russians and there were public protests. The point of preventing NATO from expanding to the East was always the topic. It just never made headlines like now.
Russia was attacked by westerners several times. Hitler, Napoleon, Swedes, Germans in WW1, Poland came at us. Beside Mongols and to some extent Turks, the only threat we have ever faced, was from the west.
Much like Cuban missile crises happened because USA had put some missiles around USSR and we felt we had to do something, the same is happening now. Putin feels cornered and desperate yet determined to do something. He's not having fun toying with his troops around. This by no means justifies what he does though.
Last edited by Pointman; 02-22-2022 at 12:12 PM.
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Because that disagrees with their stated Climate Change goals. They certainly can’t see the global benefits and are looking at their own local targets instead.
I hate how true I believe this is.
These nations are playing the long game of control. Boots in the ground feels like a rather cruel distraction. Much of Europe would freeze without Russian energy. Western nations rely on China to maintain and manufacture equipment. They pretty much control global shipping through port ownership and have introduced data laws that essentially give China an awareness of commerce while blinding other nations.
It feels like all that needs to happen is these nations tighten their fists and we’re ####ed. We don’t need a nuclear war, it’s economic.
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