[GDT] Flames @ Abbotsford. 8pm MT. Calgaryflames.com

[dino7c]

That chart starts the season after the Flames won 3 rounds (really should be red)

ouch for the Sharks lack of red

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Bingo

There isn't a Calgary hockey fan that isn't aware of the franchise and how it's done for the last X number of years.

None.

But most of us aren't looking to dig up Mike Stone trades in order to make things seem worse.

Looking forward to the comprehensive list of the GMs move that are recent enough to discuss on here

I considering the acquisition of a guy who is literally playing for the team tonight to be fair game though

I’m not saying fire Treliving because of Michael Stone, it’s just firmly on his long list of blunders

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by neo45

Looking forward to the comprehensive list of the GMs move that are recent enough to discuss on here

I considering the acquisition of a guy who is literally playing for the team tonight to be fair game though

I’m not saying fire Treliving because of Michael Stone, it’s just firmly on his long list of blunders

I'm pretty sure you get what I'm saying at a level that is greater than how you reply.

Hoping anyway.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by neo45

Looking forward to the comprehensive list of the GMs move that are recent enough to discuss on here

I considering the acquisition of a guy who is literally playing for the team tonight to be fair game though

I’m not saying fire Treliving because of Michael Stone, it’s just firmly on his long list of blunders

I'm honestly just confused why you care to have a list? Like there are some big, obvious ones that everyone would agree on, but you're here making a case for adding one more thing you subjectively think is a blunder from how many years ago? Why?

What enjoyment do you get out of doing that? It's weird.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I'm honestly just confused why you care to have a list? Like there are some big, obvious ones that everyone would agree on, but you're here making a case for adding one more thing you subjectively think is a blunder from how many years ago? Why?

What enjoyment do you get out of doing that? It's weird.

Zero enjoyment out of currently having a GM with a long list of blunders currently making more

The exact opposite of enjoyment really. Would love to see Jeff Gorton try and get something out of this core before starting a rebuild if necessary, which is why I really want Treliving gone

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by neo45

Zero enjoyment out of currently having a GM with a long list of blunders currently making more

The exact opposite of enjoyment really. Would love to see Jeff Gorton try and get something out of this core before starting a rebuild if necessary, which is why I really want Treliving gone

Say it 5 times a day and maybe it will come true.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by neo45

Zero enjoyment out of currently having a GM with a long list of blunders currently making more

The exact opposite of enjoyment really. Would love to see Jeff Gorton try and get something out of this core before starting a rebuild if necessary, which is why I really want Treliving gone

That's not what I asked. I asked why you enjoy keeping a list of blunders and arguing to add some move from several years ago that few people even think twice about to it.

That seems weird. Why do you enjoy it? And if you don't enjoy it, why do you do it?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

nm, wrong thread

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

That's not what I asked. I asked why you enjoy keeping a list of blunders and arguing to add some move from several years ago that few people even think twice about to it.

That seems weird. Why do you enjoy it? And if you don't enjoy it, why do you do it?

This is what happens when you get stuck in a rut.

It's a cry for help.

I think four of us have tried to explain why looking for more negativity is exhausting and he just keeps coming back with reasons why Treliving should be fired.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by neo45

Well said. No one is creating misery, some are just pointing out the reality and asking for drastic change

Fans aren’t negative for being unhappy with this:


If you think that visual is nauseating now wait until next year

LOL

Let's create a graph of playoff success starting the year after the Flames went to the cup!

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

LOL

Let's create a graph of playoff success starting the year after the Flames went to the cup!

I can't remember, but was there a significant change to the NHL in 2005? Was a long time ago so I can't really remember.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I can't remember, but was there a significant change to the NHL in 2005? Was a long time ago so I can't really remember.

Don’t know what’s funnier, that he thinks I made that chart or that “post lockout” is an arbitrary cut off date that only Flames haters would ever use

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Bader has the Flames 6th, so yeah if they give up four pieces they'd be like any of the teams in that area, not worse in his opinion ... which has a lot more in it than you're Chicken Little schtick.

Bader is a joke. He's a Flames die-hard apologist in the same vein that mudcrutch was for the Oilers. Creating bull#### stats that don't hold up to real scrutiny. Pumping up late draft picks because of TJ Brodie, Johnny Hockey, and Andrew Mangiapane turning into players is a pile of bull####. You have to look at it player by player, and the players the Flames have drafted are real questionable quantities. A lot of small players whose skills just don't translate. It's why every other publication that reviews prospects and systems has the Flames in the bottom third of the league, and some of them even bottom of that third.

Now beyond that I'm not that far from you on the AHL guys, not high at all, but that nor the roster was the topic. It was prospect systems, of which the junior aged players are likely the ones being coveted by Buffalo.

Okay, so move the goalposts to just junior aged players. That's fine. Ignore the previous three years of Treliving's work, the guys who fill out our minor league roster. The exact same thing applies. No top end talents. No bluechippers at ANY position. The Flames have drafted a bunch of absolute maybes. And after the best of those maybes, the 1st round picks, we have maybe two or three other prospects we can say look promising.

Not likeable.
No hope.
Not good.

And you wonder why I call you out for the sky is falling crap on a weekly basis? It gets old man.

Where is that assessment wrong? Is this team likeable? Not a ####ing chance. The top six are the same top six that the vast majority of the board are dead set against and want run out of town. I haven't seen so little support for our top players since the Young Guns era, and at least with those guys we had HOPE sold to us. Who on this roster is remotely likeable and the fans are going to rally around. Read your own board man. This team is NOT liked by the diehards who should fully in their corner. And it only got more unlikeable this past off season with the additions of less skill and less speed.

Where is the hope on this team? Where is that next great superstar in development? Where is that core that is going to lead us to the promised land of a Stanley Cup? What we're staring at is a leading scorer without a contract and heading to free agency. On the heels of that we have a guy that gave up on the team last season and needs $9M to qualify, and is on record of saying he is going to bend the team over for everything he can get out of them. He's admitted he's a mercenary and is in it for the money. Next on the list is a number one center that the fans are trying to run out of town. Where is the HOPE from this group? The only HOPE we have is that Trelving's hand is forced and we dragged into a rebuild.

How is this team GOOD??? Look at the results. Look at the system. What have they done to be considered good? They aren't good and the prospects of them being good are not... well.. good.

Even if you were 100% right which you aren't 100% of the time it would be a tiresome and bleak way to live.

And your constant apologetics for this team gets tiring. Your constant reliance on questionable stats that tell you something the eye test clearly tells you is wrong, that gets old too (You know, we're all still waiting for that turnaround you assured us all those advanced stats were telling you was just around the corner!). When does it click for you that sometimes a team that is a loser is just a loser, and all the phoney baloney stats won't change that. You can call anyone who doesn't see the Flames through your rose colored glasses a "chicken little" but be aware that what you're spinning is reminiscent of the old snake oil salesman, trying to sell the latest cure through a concoction that just doesn't make sense, that concoction being a bunch of garbage stats that don't show any consistent outcomes. If you want to rely on old adages there Bongo, I'm game.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Cripes. Maybe go for a walk or something. You shouldn't be this angry posting on a hockey forum. It's entertainment.

[jaikorven]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I can't remember, but was there a significant change to the NHL in 2005? Was a long time ago so I can't really remember.

LOL CBA lockout, maybe?

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Bader is a joke. He's a Flames die-hard apologist in the same vein that mudcrutch was for the Oilers. Creating bull#### stats that don't hold up to real scrutiny. Pumping up late draft picks because of TJ Brodie, Johnny Hockey, and Andrew Mangiapane turning into players is a pile of bull####. You have to look at it player by player, and the players the Flames have drafted are real questionable quantities. A lot of small players whose skills just don't translate. It's why every other publication that reviews prospects and systems has the Flames in the bottom third of the league, and some of them even bottom of that third.

I don't care for the rest of your post, but Bader literally uses statistical analysis for his prospect models. It's not like he watches who the Flames draft and then immediately ups their ranking. It's the most non-biased approach you can possibly take

"Scouts" like Pronman, Wheeler, etc... use the most biased form of ranking prospects you can possibly use. They form early opinions on players and combine that with their draft positions to rank them where they do. You really think those guys know the ins and outs about every single NHL prospect? Yea, okay.

I don't care if you value Bader's opinions the same way I don't value the opinions of the people you're referring to that rank the Flames so low, but I'd much rather go with the non-biased, statistical analysis route then the most biased form of rankings you can have.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Bader is a joke. He's a Flames die-hard apologist in the same vein that mudcrutch was for the Oilers. Creating bull#### stats that don't hold up to real scrutiny. Pumping up late draft picks because of TJ Brodie, Johnny Hockey, and Andrew Mangiapane turning into players is a pile of bull####. You have to look at it player by player, and the players the Flames have drafted are real questionable quantities. A lot of small players whose skills just don't translate. It's why every other publication that reviews prospects and systems has the Flames in the bottom third of the league, and some of them even bottom of that third.



Okay, so move the goalposts to just junior aged players. That's fine. Ignore the previous three years of Treliving's work, the guys who fill out our minor league roster. The exact same thing applies. No top end talents. No bluechippers at ANY position. The Flames have drafted a bunch of absolute maybes. And after the best of those maybes, the 1st round picks, we have maybe two or three other prospects we can say look promising.



Where is that assessment wrong? Is this team likeable? Not a ####ing chance. The top six are the same top six that the vast majority of the board are dead set against and want run out of town. I haven't seen so little support for our top players since the Young Guns era, and at least with those guys we had HOPE sold to us. Who on this roster is remotely likeable and the fans are going to rally around. Read your own board man. This team is NOT liked by the diehards who should fully in their corner. And it only got more unlikeable this past off season with the additions of less skill and less speed.

Where is the hope on this team? Where is that next great superstar in development? Where is that core that is going to lead us to the promised land of a Stanley Cup? What we're staring at is a leading scorer without a contract and heading to free agency. On the heels of that we have a guy that gave up on the team last season and needs $9M to qualify, and is on record of saying he is going to bend the team over for everything he can get out of them. He's admitted he's a mercenary and is in it for the money. Next on the list is a number one center that the fans are trying to run out of town. Where is the HOPE from this group? The only HOPE we have is that Trelving's hand is forced and we dragged into a rebuild.

How is this team GOOD??? Look at the results. Look at the system. What have they done to be considered good? They aren't good and the prospects of them being good are not... well.. good.



And your constant apologetics for this team gets tiring. Your constant reliance on questionable stats that tell you something the eye test clearly tells you is wrong, that gets old too (You know, we're all still waiting for that turnaround you assured us all those advanced stats were telling you was just around the corner!). When does it click for you that sometimes a team that is a loser is just a loser, and all the phoney baloney stats won't change that. You can call anyone who doesn't see the Flames through your rose colored glasses a "chicken little" but be aware that what you're spinning is reminiscent of the old snake oil salesman, trying to sell the latest cure through a concoction that just doesn't make sense, that concoction being a bunch of garbage stats that don't show any consistent outcomes. If you want to rely on old adages there Bongo, I'm game.

Honestly don't know what you're talking about most of the time.

Bader has a model that is becoming more and more trusted around hockey circles. What do you have again?

His ranking is on junior stats compared to NHL stats over time through a large database. Flames fan or not it's mathematical and not subjective.

And I didn't move the goal posts, you did. The assets Buffalo wants are 1st round equivalents. That's recent first round picks, and future first picks. News flash ... recent first round picks are junior aged.

Call my glasses rose coloured if you want ... but I'll ask you what have I said in the last three months is overtly positive? Honestly what?

It's pretty easy to find your Chicken Little posts on a daily basis by the way.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Cripes. Maybe go for a walk or something. You shouldn't be this angry posting on a hockey forum. It's entertainment.

I'm not angry, just don't like being called a chicken little by an apologist. Also don't like being told my stance is crap, especially when all of the advanced bull#### that is rammed down our throats from the apologists amounts to nothing but more of the same futility. Bongo knows this. If we were having this discussion over a beer the exact same things would have been said, then we'd laugh and say at least we aren't Oiler fans. I really hope we get to say that again this season.

[Enoch Root]

So a guy who ran a statistical analysis of all the teams is an apologist.

And Lanny_McDonald's rant about things that don't even apply to the subject are wisdom that would be apparent, if stated over beers.

Got it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I'm not angry, just don't like being called a chicken little by an apologist. Also don't like being told my stance is crap, especially when all of the advanced bull#### that is rammed down our throats from the apologists amounts to nothing but more of the same futility. Bongo knows this. If we were having this discussion over a beer the exact same things would have been said, then we'd laugh and say at least we aren't Oiler fans. I really hope we get to say that again this season.

Bongo knows what?

That advanced stats are bull####? Not sure you have the right Bongo.

I'm not going to tell you everything in Flames land is hunky dory. It's not.

Just getting tired of people looking under every rock for negativity. No team is going to have a good prospect list after moving four of their best assets. None. Making it a "boy the Flames suck" point number 194 is just beyond me.

Like why? Do you enjoy popping balloons and putting your fingers in the cake at kids parties?