[PST] Quarter Finals: Montreal Canadiens vs. Winnipeg Jets - HABS WIN SERIES 4-0

[81MC]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Half a second, quarter second, which is it man?

These guys are professionals, not beer-leaguers. Schiefele knew he was beaten and started gliding in for the kill, instead of changing direction or moving to bat the puck away.

I don’t know, probably closer to a couple hundred milliseconds?

I haven’t done a frame by frame, but anyone have a clock on the time the puck leaves Evans stick and Sxheifle makes contact? Because the difference between the outcome and that being a really good play is like, .2 of a second more than that time.

Schiefele was skating his ass off, you honestly expect him to think “well, I’m probably a couple of feet behind, might as well give up”?

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by P-DAZZLE

I actively try to avoid UFC and MMA "highlights" and I have still seen this happen many times. I don't know about intent to draw blood, but a fighter hitting someone who is clearly out or can't defend himself anymore with several more punches before the fight can be stopped.

Yes, but that's not the example he listed but rather something completely different.

Hence my post

There's no problem using the sport and the case you and I both listed for an example, but he didn't have to fabricate a fake scenario

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 81MC

I don’t know, probably closer to a couple hundred milliseconds?

I haven’t done a frame by frame, but anyone have a clock on the time the puck leaves Evans stick and Sxheifle makes contact? Because the difference between the outcome and that being a really good play is like, .2 of a second more than that time.

Schiefele was skating his ass off, you honestly expect him to think “well, I’m probably a couple of feet behind, might as well give up”?

He made no play that would have stopped a goal, milliseconds or not.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Nope. While he is loading up his weight preparing to deliver the check, the puck is deposited in the net and he simply doesn’t have to push through and complete the check

Whether it is or is not a good hit in an imaginary alternate scenario is irrelevant

He has to be aware of the position of the player he is checking and he has a clean look all the way in

Evans did nothing surprising

Scheifele was committed to the hit, that was his decision and it was not a good one

right. I've seen plenty of players load up for a big hit but realize at the last second that the puck is gone and they're too late. They are able to either avoid it altogether or at least ease up so it ends up just being a bump. Schiefele drove upwards and through Evans.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Yes. This.
The purpose of checking should be to separate player from puck.
Anything more than that should be considered a penalty.

What's more "finish your check" is a phrase that needs to be scrubbed from the sport.

I personally believe you're focused on the wrong thing there. Blowing up a vulnerable puck carrier is dangerous and if we're focused on player safety, we need to look at those hits that are the most dangerous. The NFL has made hits on defenseless players against the rules, even if they have the ball.

Rubbing a guy out along the boards who has played the puck is not particularly dangerous if done correctly. Hockey players are taught at a young age how to take a check along the boards and how to deliver them.

If Scheifele arrives a split second earlier he separates the player from the puck. But Evans is still concussed and carried off on a stretcher.

[neo45]

The amount of emotional overreactions are very entertaining. The amount of mind readers who know Schieffle was thinking hit from 200 feet away are as well

People (on twitter) comparing it to Hunter/Turgeon are fully detached from reality. Schieffle is a split second away from making a great play and keeping his team’s chances alive with amazing back check effort. It’s a one goal game in the playoffs

2 minute charging penalty and Schieffle had no angle to make a play on the puck IMO


Reminds me of when Byron KO’d Sedin with a hit that was arguably a 2 minute penalty but with a bad outcome, where the injured player did a poor job of defending himself

[Cycling76er]

Any word on when this hearing is supposed to happen? Not likely today?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

The amount of emotional overreactions are very entertaining. The amount of mind readers who know Schieffle was thinking hit from 200 feet away are as well

People (on twitter) comparing it to Hunter/Turgeon are fully detached from reality. Schieffle is a split second away from making a great play and keeping his team’s chances alive with amazing back check effort. It’s a one goal game in the playoffs

2 minute charging penalty and Schieffle had no angle to make a play on the puck IMO


Reminds me of when Byron KO’d Sedin with a hit that was arguably a 2 minute penalty but with a bad outcome, where the injured player did a poor job of defending himself

It's like you've not seen any of the videos. He actually changed his angle to make the hit instead of trying to block the stick. He was nowhere near making a great play. He had a much better chance if he went for the puck

[Stanley]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's like you've not seen any of the videos. He actually changed his angle to make the hit instead of trying to block the stick. He was nowhere near making a great play. He had a much better chance if he went for the puck

That first pic says a lot

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's like you've not seen any of the videos. He actually changed his angle to make the hit instead of trying to block the stick. He was nowhere near making a great play. He had a much better chance if he went for the puck

I feel like those images prove my point? If he plays the puck he puts it in his own net

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

I feel like those images prove my point? If he plays the puck he puts it in his own net

I feel like those images prove he was too late to do anything and he needed to ease up. Pic one he's already lost the race. He probably should have been diving full length to deflect it, if anything. You can see he knows he's been beaten and he's loading up anyway.

You have dirty players like Bieksa and Barnaby, who know what's happening there.

Here's a fraction before that pic.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I feel like those images prove he was too late to do anything and he needed to ease up. Pic one he's already lost the race. He probably should have been diving full length to deflect it, if anything. You can see he knows he's been beaten and he's loading up anyway.

You have dirty players like Bieksa and Barnaby, who know what's happening there.

Here's a fraction before that pic.

Diving poke check at top speed probably just puts the puck in his own net and then his own face into the boards

Is he really expected to ease up in a one goal playoff game because he is probably beaten? It’s not like this is garbage time or a meaningless game, the exact opposite situation in fact

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by neo45

Diving poke check at top speed probably just puts the puck in his own net and then his own face into the boards

Is he really expected to ease up in a one goal playoff game because he is probably beaten? It’s not like this is garbage time or a meaningless game, the exact opposite situation in fact

Scheifele stops skating and changes his trajectory to make the hit long before this—then he loads up for it. It seems obvious to me that he knew there was no chance to save a goal well before the point of this screen-cap.

Like Geo said: there was no play he could have made to stop the goal.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

Diving poke check at top speed probably just puts the puck in his own net and then his own face into the boards

Is he really expected to ease up in a one goal playoff game because he is probably beaten? It’s not like this is garbage time or a meaningless game, the exact opposite situation in fact

Yes, it might do those things, but it has a 100% better chance of stopping a goal than angling away from the net and cruising into a big hit after the puck goes in.

His actual best bet was to look for the puck to slip off Evan's stick and try to secure it. But by the time he got there, that didn't happen.

He knows the goal is getting scored and he's looking to make it hurt to do it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by neo45

Diving poke check at top speed probably just puts the puck in his own net and then his own face into the boards

Is he really expected to ease up in a one goal playoff game because he is probably beaten? It’s not like this is garbage time or a meaningless game, the exact opposite situation in fact

Scheifele's not even looking at the puck. 100% focus on dealing as much damage to the player as possible. He probably already knows the puck was in. The hit didn't stop the play in any way, it was just to punish Evans. More akin to hitting a quarterback after the play. Scheifele lost his temper IMO and gave an unnecessary hit after the play.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's like you've not seen any of the videos. He actually changed his angle to make the hit instead of trying to block the stick. He was nowhere near making a great play. He had a much better chance if he went for the puck

But there is no way to stop the goal with your stick there. Schiefele would 100% end up jamming it in. He just wasn't there quick enough.


I see it as reckless, but not malicious. No, he did not skate 200ft with the malicious intent of rocking Evans - I don't see that from the replays. I see a guy who is skating hard on the backcheck trying to save a goal, and there was no other path to prevent that goal.


Now, was it reckless? Yes. However, at that last instant, Schiefele appears to slow down some, and you can see from the skates a lot of snow spray - was that him slowing down? I don't know. He didn't hit the head, and if he was trying to blow the guy up, I think he would have launched as well.



I think this is one of those instances that the speed of the game results in a reckless - but not malicious - incident.


Should Schiefele get suspended? Yes, I do think he should get suspended, but probably just a couple of games. That was a reckless play.


I just don't see it as him racing down the ice just to blow Evans up. I don't see it as predatory.


I have also repeatedly argued that I feel just because a hit is clean, doesn't make it right. People complain (even players) for making a clean - but huge - hit, and having to answer for it. I think if you make a big hit with an intent to injure a guy, even if it is 100% textbook clean - then you better also be willing to answer for it. If you are going to blow a guy up and try to injure him (of course a huge hit is likely to cause injury, right?), then that player shouldn't suddenly be surprised when the other team tries to make him answer for it.



In this case, I don't think that intent was to injure. It was a reckless attempt at trying to prevent the goal, but I don't see it as predatory.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

But there is no way to stop the goal with your stick there. Schiefele would 100% end up jamming it in. He just wasn't there quick enough.

The weird thing is he probably could have been. He doesn't stride that much after the blue line. If he just puts his head down and skates back as hard as he can the whole way he might be there a full second earlier. Then, imagine that instead of going for the hit, he goes for the stick lift as Evans circles the net (while potentially running into Evans at the same time, given that he's going to be on that trajectory, but because he isn't loading up for a hit he probably makes more contact with his hip or butt). He might have been in time to stop that from going in. I think he would have at least had a chance of stopping it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

But there is no way to stop the goal with your stick there...

I think we all agree here, and that is hugely problematic for Scheifele who seems to know this as well.

I see it as reckless, but not malicious. No, he did not skate 200ft with the malicious intent of rocking Evans - I don't see that from the replays.

But he does start gliding at full speed and loading up for the hit a good 25–30ft out.

I see a guy who is skating hard on the backcheck trying to save a goal, and there was no other path to prevent that goal.

Not quite. There was no path period for Scheifele to prevent the goal, which makes this play all the more egregious.

...at that last instant, Schiefele appears to slow down some, and you can see from the skates a lot of snow spray - was that him slowing down? ... He didn't hit the head, and if he was trying to blow the guy up, I think he would have launched as well.

This looks like apologetics to me. I cannot fathom how anyone can honestly say that Scheifele was letting up, or that he didn't launch into the hit.

[D as in David]

I think the first picture actually indicates he could have made a legitimate attempt at stopping the goal with his stick. He has already turned his body for a check resulting in his left shoulder/stick hand being at least a foot further away from the puck. If he was going for the puck with his stick, he would have led with his left shoulder and plus he would have lunged for the puck getting his stick even closer toward the puck. However, this would have put himself in a very vulnerable position. It's been a long time since I played hockey but as a fellow right handed player, I would think I'd be more comfortable making a check with the combination of left leg/right shoulder vs. right leg/left shoulder, especially if the player is actually right handed.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think we all agree here, and that is hugely problematic for Scheifele who seems to know this as well.


But he does start gliding at full speed and loading up for the hit a good 25–30ft out.


Not quite. There was no path period for Scheifele to prevent the goal, which makes this play all the more egregious.


This looks like apologetics to me. I cannot fathom how anyone can honestly say that Scheifele was letting up, or that he didn't launch into the hit.

Agreed but people stating it was a 200 ft run at Evans kind of appears to be hyperbole to make an already bad and likely illegal hit sound even worse.