2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Also have to take into consideration the fact that Byfield's competitiveness is one of the traits most often questioned by scouts and there's concern over his ability to step up in games that matter the most, whereas Lafreniere is absolutely praised for his competitiveness, clutch factor and drive to be the absolute best possible player he can be.

Byfield has a chance to be an excellent #1 center that every team of dream of having, but you absolutely take Lafreniere if you're drafting first. There was zero debate all season about Lafreniere being the consensus #1 over Byfield. Instead, there's no debate about whether Stutzle has surpassed Byfield.

Just curious where you heard this? I haven't heard or read anything bad about Byfield's clutch factor or compete-are you maybe thinking of the fact that he has room to get more mean and physical?

[N-E-B]

Holy crap. There’s some bad proposals in here. I swear some of you guys are addicted to rebuilding. Tkachuk isn’t getting traded for a pick. That’s absurd.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Holy crap. There’s some bad proposals in here. I swear some of you guys are addicted to rebuilding. Tkachuk isn’t getting traded for a pick. That’s absurd.

How can we be addicted to rebuilding when we’ve never rebuilt?

Your point still stands - trading Tkachuk is madness.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by camm13

They have Jonathan Drouin whose a pretty decent, french speaking player.

IMO Drouin is like a 2nd/3rd line guy on a good team

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Tkachuk and Hanifin for 3rd overall and White is a laughably bad trade, I'm sorry. The Flames give up Tkachuk for a worse asset in pick 3 and give up Hanifin for a much worse asset in White.

That trade would set the Flames back 5-10 years.

I guess I’m gunshy on homering trades the other way; on the forums it seems that the trade suggestions are either ‘laughably bad’ for us or ‘there is no way they would do that’ type reactions. What’s the middle ground?? It would be nice to talk about suggestions that way as opposed to always having them scoffed at for being too good or too bad for the flames.

I had originally typed it out as:

Tkachuk + Jankowski for 3rd overall + 5th overall + White

But i deleted that thinking it was too much in our favour.

I went with 3rd (Byfield, potential top 6 centre) and Colin White (23 YO right handed centre who still has growth) because the Flames were signing Hall in my scenario and we are left wing Heavy.

Is Tkachuk + Janko for 3rd + 5th + White closer??

To put it in perspective I was talking about this with a friend who is a Leafs fan and he said if Calgary wanted the 3rd and 5th it would cost them Tkachuk and Gaudreau which is obviously laughable as well.

Can we not talk about/build on suggestions though rather than taking big dumps on them? Would prove to be a more enjoyable thread at least for myself... haven’t been posting much because covid has taken the joys of sports away and getting a response like that after not posting for months is probably going to make me just not bother logging in for a bit but Wte.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I guess I’m gunshy on homering trades the other way; on the forums it seems that the trade suggestions are either ‘laughably bad’ for us or ‘there is no way they would do that’ type reactions. What’s the middle ground?? It would be nice to talk about suggestions that way as opposed to always having them scoffed at for being too good or too bad for the flames.

I had originally typed it out as:

Tkachuk + Jankowski for 3rd overall + 5th overall + White

But i deleted that thinking it was too much in our favour.

I went with 3rd (Byfield, potential top 6 centre) and Colin White (23 YO right handed centre who still has growth) because the Flames were signing Hall in my scenario and we are left wing Heavy.

Is Tkachuk + Janko for 3rd + 5th + White closer??

To put it in perspective I was talking about this with a friend who is a Leafs fan and he said if Calgary wanted the 3rd and 5th it would cost them Tkachuk and Gaudreau which is obviously laughable as well.

Can we not talk about/build on suggestions though rather than taking big dumps on them? Would prove to be a more enjoyable thread at least for myself... haven’t been posting much because covid has taken the joys of sports away and getting a response like that after not posting for months is probably going to make me just not bother logging in for a bit but Wte.

Trade proposals are no win situation. Different people value players, picks and prospects very differently and then you add in emotion on top of it.

Even when a real trade happens, that two actual NHL GMs agreed upon, the 1st page of the thread usually features wildly different reactions on both ends of the scale.

[dino7c]

Tkachuk would go 2nd overall in a redraft and is guaranteed not a bust. Trade talk is dumb

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I guess I’m gunshy on homering trades the other way; on the forums it seems that the trade suggestions are either ‘laughably bad’ for us or ‘there is no way they would do that’ type reactions. What’s the middle ground?? It would be nice to talk about suggestions that way as opposed to always having them scoffed at for being too good or too bad for the flames.

I had originally typed it out as:

Tkachuk + Jankowski for 3rd overall + 5th overall + White

But i deleted that thinking it was too much in our favour.

I went with 3rd (Byfield, potential top 6 centre) and Colin White (23 YO right handed centre who still has growth) because the Flames were signing Hall in my scenario and we are left wing Heavy.

Is Tkachuk + Janko for 3rd + 5th + White closer??

To put it in perspective I was talking about this with a friend who is a Leafs fan and he said if Calgary wanted the 3rd and 5th it would cost them Tkachuk and Gaudreau which is obviously laughable as well.

Can we not talk about/build on suggestions though rather than taking big dumps on them? Would prove to be a more enjoyable thread at least for myself... haven’t been posting much because covid has taken the joys of sports away and getting a response like that after not posting for months is probably going to make me just not bother logging in for a bit but Wte.

Nothing wrong with posting trade speculation, but you leave yourself open for criticism, I think, if your proposal is outlandish.

I don’t think either team pulls the trigger on your Flames/Senators proposals. Look at the organizational direction for each and their current situations. The Senators are firmly if the ‘rebuilding’ phase while the Flames are a good team looking to take the next step and become a contender, at least that is how I see it. Simply put, the Senators are not about to trade two top 5 picks and a promising prospect for a player who has two years left on his deal and will need a $10M QO next time around. Seems very un-Senator/Melnyk like to me. Throwing Jankowski in likely doesn’t move the needle either.

On the other hand, why would the Flames trade, arguably, their best player who is 22 and is only getting better? What indication has there been, ever, that the Flames would even explore trading Tkachuk at this point? The way I see it is the Flames are going to be building around Tkachuk. Not Stutzle, or Byfield, or Drysdale, or whoever they might rake at that slot. If you have been paying attention to the Flames organization over the past 15 years or so, they tend to want to compete. ‘Tanking’ or openly rebuilding is not something they willingly take part in.

The writing appears to be on the wall for Gaudreau. There’s way too much chatter locally and elsewhere that points to his departure and this offseason seems to be the window for the Flames to do it. They have control and they can look to pick up assets to build around Tkachuk and their under 25 age group with.

[Monahammer]

Don't trade our tkachuk, use the power of the 1st overall(+ bennett or something) to get their tkachuk and the 3rd overall.

Its all fanciful hopes and dreams anyways.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Don't trade our tkachuk, use the power of the 1st overall(+ bennett or something) to get their tkachuk and the 3rd overall.

Its all fanciful hopes and dreams anyways.

Ottawa moving from 3rd to 1st probably isn't going to cost them a 20 year old former 4th overall who was on pace for 50+ points.

I dunno...

Brady + 5th OA for Bennett + 1st OA

Sens get Lafreniere and Byfield, give Bennett a new lease on life but lose Brady.

Flames add Brady increasing the likelihood that Matthew will stay put in CGY long term and not be a total DB in negotiations, and still walk away with a C prospect like Rossi or Perfetti.

lol I dunno

Man I hope the Flames win that damn 1st overall if they lose to the Jets.

[Poe969]

I was just talking with a buddy and went over the "second dream scenario" since the dream is for the Flames to win the cup.

The Flames lose to the jets but end up with the first overall pick. The sens make multiple offers for the first overall but finally pay the price of 3rd, 5th and 46th for the 1st overall and Janko (just to say we added someone). The sens then draft Lafrenière, the kings draft Stutzle and the Flames get Byfield (even if it goes wrong, the Flames get Stutzle which is great). With the 5th, the Flames get one of Perfetti, Holtz or Rossi. The Flames then trade Johnny to the Sabres for Cozens and 8th and draft Askarov. I don't know enough about the later rounds of the draft but I trust the Flames scouts to make some good picks. Come free agency, the Flames sign Hall to a deal that surprises a lot of people 7x8, and sign Lehner, Gudas and a high risk player.

The team then becomes dominant and wins multiple cups.

[djsFlames]

I'm not as enticed by Brady as many here.

I think there are better players, and I think Lafreniere will be one of them.

This unite the brothers thing isn't as important as doing the right things to capitalize with this core.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I was just talking with a buddy and went over the "second dream scenario" since the dream is for the Flames to win the cup.

The Flames lose to the jets but end up with the first overall pick. The sens make multiple offers for the first overall but finally pay the price of 3rd, 5th and 46th for the 1st overall and Janko (just to say we added someone). The sens then draft Lafrenière, the kings draft Stutzle and the Flames get Byfield (even if it goes wrong, the Flames get Stutzle which is great). With the 5th, the Flames get one of Perfetti, Holtz or Rossi. The Flames then trade Johnny to the Sabres for Cozens and 8th and draft Askarov. I don't know enough about the later rounds of the draft but I trust the Flames scouts to make some good picks. Come free agency, the Flames sign Hall to a deal that surprises a lot of people 7x8, and sign Lehner, Gudas and a high risk player.

The team then becomes dominant and wins multiple cups.

My goodness what a dream.

Imagine drafting 3rd, 5th and 8th so they add Byfield, Rossi, Askarov and Cozens to the prospect pool but the team stays competitive now too but with a stacked prospect pool.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I was just talking with a buddy and went over the "second dream scenario" since the dream is for the Flames to win the cup.

The Flames lose to the jets but end up with the first overall pick. The sens make multiple offers for the first overall but finally pay the price of 3rd, 5th and 46th for the 1st overall and Janko (just to say we added someone). The sens then draft Lafrenière, the kings draft Stutzle and the Flames get Byfield (even if it goes wrong, the Flames get Stutzle which is great). With the 5th, the Flames get one of Perfetti, Holtz or Rossi. The Flames then trade Johnny to the Sabres for Cozens and 8th and draft Askarov. I don't know enough about the later rounds of the draft but I trust the Flames scouts to make some good picks. Come free agency, the Flames sign Hall to a deal that surprises a lot of people 7x8, and sign Lehner, Gudas and a high risk player.

The team then becomes dominant and wins multiple cups.

Wow. I guess the Senators and Sabres must be really nice.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Wow. I guess the Senators and Sabres must be really nice.

There are cases to be made for overpayment by both teams. Someone elite to get Eichel happy in Buffalo thats in his timeline and in Ottawa a pure franchise player to anchor to for years to come.

[Poe969]

Both teams are painted in a corner. The sabres need to make Eichel happy and compete now, Johnny would accomplish both.

The sens are painted in a corner because....well Dorion just doesn't seem to know what he's doing right now. They have a ton of picks and they need some kind of star power to become relevant.

So not so much nice but both teams are in a position to have to do something.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Both teams are painted in a corner. The sabres need to make Eichel happy and compete now, Johnny would accomplish both.

The sens are painted in a corner because....well Dorion just doesn't seem to know what he's doing right now. They have a ton of picks and they need some kind of star power to become relevant.

So not so much nice but both teams are in a position to have to do something.

How do you get to that conclusion??

He was tasked with a scorched earth purging and a complete rebuild.

He has 13 picks in THIS draft, a couple great young players on the team already, and all the assets needed to make deals for real bonafide NHL players who arent past their best before date.

I think he has done a remarkable job actually especially when you add in the Melnyk factor, and has his club primed to be something special in 2 or 3 years.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dammage79

There are cases to be made for overpayment by both teams. Someone elite to get Eichel happy in Buffalo thats in his timeline and in Ottawa a pure franchise player to anchor to for years to come.

I don’t mind the premise, but I think the return’s aren’t realistic.

If the Flames win 1OA, I think there is good reason to think there would be a deal on the table with the Sens for the pick. I don’t think the Flames should expect 3 & 5. Bare in mind the Flames offered 6, 22 & 28 for MacKinnon and based on the reports I’ve read, Lafreniere doesn’t project to be at the same level as MacKinnon. Why would the Sens pay more for less?

I have a hard time believing the Sabres would offer, essentially, two top 10 picks for two years of JG. Also, I think the flames would be looking for a player to address a current roster need, not picks. Cozens & Montour or Miller. They get a A level prospect and a RHS D.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Both teams are painted in a corner. The sabres need to make Eichel happy and compete now, Johnny would accomplish both.

The sens are painted in a corner because....well Dorion just doesn't seem to know what he's doing right now. They have a ton of picks and they need some kind of star power to become relevant.

So not so much nice but both teams are in a position to have to do something.

...or they could not be the typical, rushed, unsuccessful Canadian franchise and be patient and build through the draft. These 3rd and 5th picks are franchise cornerstones for them.

The other thing to discuss is the fact that top 5 picks simply don’t get traded. The highest picks in recent history to get moved are the 2013 9th OA pick (NJD/VAN, 9th for Schneider), the 2017th 7th OA pick (ARZ/NYR DeAngelo and 7th for Stepan/Raanta), 2012 8th OA (CAR/PIT Staal for Sutter, 8th, Dumoulin), in all of those deals the team sending the picks got hosed - which shows why we don’t see those type of trades made often.

If we were to look at these and gauge what Johnny would be worth in a deal with Buffalo:

To CGY: 8th overall+Cozens or Reinhart
To BUF: Gaudreau

Is actually right around where “market value” would be.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I don’t mind the premise, but I think the return’s aren’t realistic.

If the Flames win 1OA, I think there is good reason to think there would be a deal on the table with the Sens for the pick. I don’t think the Flames should expect 3 & 5. Bare in mind the Flames offered 6, 22 & 28 for MacKinnon and based on the reports I’ve read, MacKinnon projects to be better than Lafreniere. Why would the Sens pay more for less?

I have a hard time believing the Sabres would offer, essentially, two top 10 picks for two years of JG. Also, I think the flames would be looking for a player to address a current roster need, not picks. Cozens & Montour or Miller. They get a A level prospect and a RHS D.

Well the Flames offered three picks but it wasn't accepted so it's not really relevant at all since we don't know what it would have actually taken