American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[Drak]

Looks like MoscowMike was denied immunity.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...-flynn-n741061

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Drak

Looks like MoscowMike was denied immunity.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...-flynn-n741061

Jeffery Toobin discussed this a bit on CNN yesterday. He worked for the special prosecutor team in the Iran Contra affair. Essentially, years of work was undone on Oliver North when a congressional investigation committee granted him immunity without coordinating with anyone else and it ruined the investigation. The Senate saying no is likely because they're waiting for CIA, FBI, etc to agree on it before they even consider it.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by New Era

The United States does not recognize dual citizenship for its citizens. Other countries do. Most of the commonwealth countries allow you to be a dual citizen. So as a born Canuck who became a naturalized American citizen, I get to retain my Canadian citizenship with no expectation of renouncement. Going the other way, American citizens born in the USA would have to renounce their citizenship should they want to become a citizen of another country.

That's not true at all in practice. For the last 30-40 years, the government and the courts have held the position that to lose your US citizenship upon naturalization in another country, you have to have obtained that second citizenship "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality," and the onus is on the government to prove that the person had that intention. So in the vast majority of cases it is presumed that the US citizen wants to keep their nationality unless there are reasons to think otherwise (US citizen renounces, commits treason, takes a policy level position in a foreign government, etc.).

So while the US government doesn't encourage American citizens to acquire citizenship in other countries, they do recognize it and don't require you to renounce your US citizenship as a result.

[direwolf]

Lol, Trump sure is obsessed with those election results. He's never gonna let that go, is he. He could be on his death bed and he'd still be tweeting about it like a 12 year-old.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by opendoor

That's not true at all in practice. For the last 30-40 years, the government and the courts have held the position that to lose your US citizenship upon naturalization in another country, you have to have obtained that second citizenship "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality," and the onus is on the government to prove that the person had that intention. So in the vast majority of cases it is presumed that the US citizen wants to keep their nationality unless there are reasons to think otherwise (US citizen renounces, commits treason, takes a policy level position in a foreign government, etc.).

So while the US government doesn't encourage American citizens to acquire citizenship in other countries, they do recognize it and don't require you to renounce your US citizenship as a result.

Yes, I believe this is correct. I think it's actually pretty hard to relinquish your US citizenship. The US wants to keep collecting your world income.

I also don't think there is anything that says dual born citizens (ie Canadian dad, American mom), have to pick a citizenship at 18. They are generally both unless they renounce one.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

#BigLeagueTruth - does this mean the truth is juicing?

At least he used the right 'witch'.

[RougeUnderoos]

Spicer starting to talk faster, louder, snarkier, angrier, and with more gesticulating. So that's a good sign.

Also, exposing information about Russian meddling in an American election is just as concerning as Russian meddling in an American election.

I wonder if they think anyone outside of their little club actually believes this. I know they don't.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

These TrumpDraws gifs always crack me up.

https://twitter.com/TrumpDraws/statu...07560777129987

I can't believe I never noticed this, but that lady on the left (no clue who she is), but she has no concept on how to clap. Bizarre.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Spicer still having a job is definitely one of the most shocking things of the Trump administration so far. I could do better.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by opendoor

That's not true at all in practice. For the last 30-40 years, the government and the courts have held the position that to lose your US citizenship upon naturalization in another country, you have to have obtained that second citizenship "with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality," and the onus is on the government to prove that the person had that intention. So in the vast majority of cases it is presumed that the US citizen wants to keep their nationality unless there are reasons to think otherwise (US citizen renounces, commits treason, takes a policy level position in a foreign government, etc.).

So while the US government doesn't encourage American citizens to acquire citizenship in other countries, they do recognize it and don't require you to renounce your US citizenship as a result.

So when my wife attempted to become a Canadian citizen, and was told by the US consulate that she could not do so without renouncing her American citizenship, the consulate gave her wrong information?

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by New Era

So when my wife attempted to become a Canadian citizen, and was told by the US consulate that she could not do so without renouncing her American citizenship, the consulate gave her wrong information?

I'd wait on renouncing anything until the crazy man has been told to leave. President Pence will restore sanity. I just threw up on my keyboard.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by New Era

So when my wife attempted to become a Canadian citizen, and was told by the US consulate that she could not do so without renouncing her American citizenship, the consulate gave her wrong information?

Unless there were extenuating circumstances that'd make her ineligible, then yes. While the law states that the act of obtaining naturalization in a foreign state is an expatriating act that would cause a loss of citizenship, the courts and the government have made it quite clear how this is to be interpreted. In order for that to happen the act has to be done with the intention of relinqueshing that person's US nationality. And the State Department explicitly states various scenarios that do not meet that standard:

As already noted, the actions listed above will result in the loss of U.S. nationality if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. nationality. The Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. nationals intend to retain United States nationality when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, declare their allegiance to a foreign state, serve in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.

In light of the administrative premise discussed above, a person who:

1. is naturalized in a foreign country;
2. takes a routine oath of allegiance to a foreign state;
3. serves in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or
4. accepts non-policy level employment with a foreign government,

and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. nationality need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. nationality since such an intent will be presumed.

https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...tionality.html

So in those examples, it is presumed by the US government that the US citizen intends to retain their US nationality and thus they do not lose their citizenship nor do they need to provide evidence that it was not an expatriating act.

All that said, there are certainly rigorous requirements to obtain Canadian citizenship by marriage, including having to become a permanent resident and meet the residency requirements for Canada.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Great information opendoor. Greatly appreciated!

[Izzle]

I wasnt sure whether to put this in here or in the Funny images thread.

Such an impressive display of ####-ness every where. My favourite part is when Pence's head hangs slightly in shame after Trump tells him that he'll sign the EO's later.



For context:
Justin Sink‏Verified account
@justinsink

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after @MajorCBS asks about Flynn, Trump leaves signing ceremony without signing executive orders. Pence went and picked it up from desk

https://twitter.com/justinsink/statu...3post130178355

[HotHotHeat]

Hahahaha. Classic 5 year old Trump.

[direwolf]

Trump is such a d-bag.

[Senator Clay Davis]

That gif is incomplete until they can work in Vincent Vega wondering what's up.

[station]

^^^ Zoom in and watch only the face of the lady in red. Her expressions basically summarize America's collective reaction to the Trump presidency.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I honestly think he just forgot why he was there.

[puffnstuff]

Had to leave, gotta make his tee time.