[News] Bettman urges new arena ASAP

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

I don't care about a "mutually beneficial solution" if I'm a taxpayer. I care about Nenshi as my elected representative actually representing my interests and not paying for something that they can pay for themselves.

The solution is for the Flames to finance their arena like how they did in Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto. To pay for it themselves. That's the solution. There is no negotiating or bargaining around that basic hard truth.

If you say so.
But there's always negotiating.
And perhaps what you think is the right solution isn't what other people want.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If you say so.
But there's always negotiating.
And perhaps what you think is the right solution isn't what other people want.

If this very forum's own poll is any indication, I don't think those in favour would want the city to take this to plebiscite.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I would go to way less games as I have no interest in watching a CFL game in the middle of summer indoors. A 2 or 5pm kickoff on a Saturday in the middle of July sitting in the sun drinking beer and watching football is a good time. Sitting in a closed roof stadium loses a ton of the experience for me personally.

Retractable roof!

[Parallex]

I'm kinda shocked that King's letter is the only thing they've sent to the city. That's crazy.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by heep223

Retractable roof!

Would be awesome butninthougjt Ling already came out and said it was too expensive and not something they were considering

[RM14]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Can someone objectively answer, why the City should be offering public monies to CS&E?

The theory is the $200mm field house is already a city priority. This proposal would allow the city to have that functional space and an even more unique space to hold national championships/events for a variety of amateur sports. The field house would likely have restaurants and box suite capabilities for these events and would be a major venue capable of hosting amateur sporting championships indoors unlike anywhere else in Canada.

[Benched]

well, if nothing else, CalgaryNEXT has created economic upturn for CP. All the hits/posts we must be wracking up the fractions of pennies in ad revenue!

Bingo is rich! RICH I tell you!

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by RM14

The theory is the $200mm field house is already a city priority. This proposal would allow the city to have that functional space and an even more unique space to hold national championships/events for a variety of amateur sports. The field house would likely have restaurants and box suite capabilities for these events and would be a major venue capable of hosting amateur sporting championships indoors unlike anywhere else in Canada.

Ahh, then that piece I can get into conversations with, although it's not yet budgeted, just 'earmarked'.

And while private business would use it, albeit not an overly lucrative and growing one (CFL), I'd ask for concessions from their side.

[Cappy]

The fieldhouse, while wanted, doesn't have funding and won't anytime soon.

The City never intended the fieldhouse to be downtown on some of the most desirable land in the city (selling that plot could probably fund the fieldhouse) and have noted that specs have been done for a field house but not downtown.

Downtown is not the best or most economical place to put a fieldhouse.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Cappy

But why should the city pay for that?

Amateur sport could use it, and in many circles are direly needing one.
Track & Field. Soccer.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Benched

well, if nothing else, CalgaryNEXT has created economic upturn for CP. All the hits/posts we must be wracking up the fractions of pennies in ad revenue!

Bingo is rich! RICH I tell you!

Maybe he should pay for CalgaryNEXT

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I would love to speak to Nenshi about a lot of things. The fact that he doesn't want to talk to me doesn't make him any less of a mayor. Just because Bettman represents a business with a franchise in Calgary doesn't mean Nenshi has to meet him.

Actually, I bet if you tweeted Nenshi, you would have a decent chance of getting a response. I love people bitching about his childish waste of time on twitter...for every silly thing that happens there, he probably has 50 interactions with citizens that are informative and beneficial. I'm okay with him 'wasting' hours on twitter dealing with actual citizens, rather than wasting time gladhanding Bettman.

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I watched Bettman's CBC interview in the evening news and Bettman's comments were a lot more reserved, professional and diplomatic than Nenshi's.

Did you listen to his radio interview? Did you see/listen to Nenshi's comments, or just read them. They come across worse in print than in context IMO.

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Amateur sport could use it, and in many circles are direly needing one.
Track & Field. Soccer.

I don't dispute that, but I don't see why we wouldn't update our existing facilities to remain a leader in the unique amateur sports we are already a hub for. Certainly the field house would benefit those athletes too, but I don't know that a project of this scale is necessary to 'support amateur sport'.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

How were Vancouver, Toronto & Montreal accommodated in this regard?

Toronto is the only successful example of a privately funded NHL arena in Canada. Given the size of the Toronto market and the greater frequency of events, it's obviously not that comparable to Calgary. Both Molson Centre and GM Place went into bankruptcy shortly after construction resulting in losses for initial investors. Here's a synopsis by Edmonton mayor Don Iveson.

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Can someone objectively answer, why the City should be offering public monies to CS&E?

The Flames are putting up essentially $450M, which should be enough to get an arena done on its own. In my opinion, the need for a new stadium in Calgary is far greater than that for an arena. The only way a new stadium will happen is with public money. Every major outdoor stadium built in Canada in recent has been publicly funded. Stade Saputo, BMO field, new Mosaic, IG Field, TD Place, Tim Hortons field, BC Place renovation, etc. When McMahon is eventually replaced, public dollars will be required. The concept the Flames are proposing provides a far greater public benefit than any of the listed facilities by including a fieldhouse and community rink.

We need to replace our stadium and arena in the near term. There are economies and synergies to be gained by co-locating the assets. Building both together will result in a lower cost to the taxpayer than the Flames building a privately financed arena, the City footing at least portion of the bill for a separate McMahon 2.0, and the entire cost of a new fieldhouse. The concept is sound.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Cappy

...
Also, if we think the city should give money to the Flames because "this is how it has always been done" then you are part of the problem with North American professional sports

No, the City of Calgary should not just "give" money to the Flames organization for some stupid poorly-thought pipe-dream. But they absolutely should help them and be part of finding a solution to building a new arena. Because there are undisputed benefits to Calgary in having an NHL franchise. If you completely reject the notion of a mutual benefit here, this discussion is going nowhere. All I'm saying is that it just needs to be properly quantified.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Cappy

The fieldhouse, while wanted, doesn't have funding and won't anytime soon.

The City never intended the fieldhouse to be downtown on some of the most desirable land in the city (selling that plot could probably fund the fieldhouse) and have noted that specs have been done for a field house but not downtown.

Downtown is not the best or most economical place to put a fieldhouse.

The plot has negative value. No private investor in their right mind will consider touching the West Village lands due to the assumption of liability.

The fact that there isn't a larger scandal around the City paying $37 million (which is near market for an uncontaminated site) for the GSL lands last year amazes me. The purchase was approved in an in camera council session without having any idea regarding the extent of the potential environmental liability being assumed.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

No, the City of Calgary should not just "give" money to the Flames organization for some stupid poorly-thought pipe-dream. But they absolutely should help them and be part of finding a solution to building a new arena. Because there are undisputed benefits to Calgary in having an NHL franchise. If you completely reject the notion of a mutual benefit here, this discussion is going nowhere. All I'm saying is that it just needs to be properly quantified.

There are benefits to having grocery stores, doesn't mean the city should start pitching in to fund new grocery stores.

The issue is that there is a balance between the benefit of having the Flames in Calgary vs. how much money should be put forth to keep that benefit.

Most studies seem to indicate that the financial benefit of sports teams is negligible. They don't drive community growth like the owners make them out to be. Substitution is the main reason.

So, the benefit of the Flames is largely intangible, emotional, etc. to a city. They provide this benefit to some citizens - not all.

So we need to look at providing funding to infrastructure that provides intangible benefit to the City; but it is also privately owned, so while money will be earned through the venue, the city will not benefit in a substantial way from the proceeds (outside some jobs).

I am not arguing against funding from the city, I am merely pointing out the benefit that the city receives. It is up to the city, and its taxpayers, to determine how much money should be allocated to provide that investment.

Besides the issue above, though, there are so many other issues with the proposal.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Zarley

The plot has negative value. No private investor in their right mind will consider touching the West Village lands due to the assumption of liability.

The fact that there isn't a larger scandal around the City paying $37 million (which is near market for an uncontaminated site) for the GSL lands last year amazes me. The purchase was approved in an in camera council session without having any idea regarding the extent of the potential environmental liability being assumed.

Its worthless eh?

So why would the Flames want it?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cappy

The fieldhouse, while wanted, doesn't have funding and won't anytime soon.

The City never intended the fieldhouse to be downtown on some of the most desirable land in the city (selling that plot could probably fund the fieldhouse) and have noted that specs have been done for a field house but not downtown.

Downtown is not the best or most economical place to put a fieldhouse.

Because putting it in the NW or SW would be much better alienating quadrants of the city? Downtown is the best place to put it without a doubt.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Toronto is the only successful example of a privately funded NHL arena in Canada. Given the size of the Toronto market and the greater frequency of events, it's obviously not that comparable to Calgary. Both Molson Centre and GM Place went into bankruptcy shortly after construction resulting in losses for initial investors. Here's a synopsis by Edmonton mayor Don Iveson.



The Flames are putting up essentially $450M, which should be enough to get an arena done on its own. In my opinion, the need for a new stadium in Calgary is far greater than that for an arena. The only way a new stadium will happen is with public money. Every major outdoor stadium built in Canada in recent has been publicly funded. Stade Saputo, BMO field, new Mosaic, IG Field, TD Place, Tim Hortons field, BC Place renovation, etc. When McMahon is eventually replaced, public dollars will be required. The concept the Flames are proposing provides a far greater public benefit than any of the listed facilities by including a fieldhouse and community rink.

We need to replace our stadium and arena in the near term. There are economies and synergies to be gained by co-locating the assets. Building both together will result in a lower cost to the taxpayer than the Flames building a privately financed arena, the City footing at least portion of the bill for a separate McMahon 2.0, and the entire cost of a new fieldhouse. The concept is sound.

ICEdistrict cost 480 million as a separate building.

IG Field cost 200 million as a separate building.

Timmies field was less than 150 million.

Unless the Flames plan on putting in a whole bunch of bells and whistles, then the costs they have associated with project are horrible estimates.

Nobody here is asking for decadence. The Edmonton arena is filled with ridiculous stuff that is not needed. Build a rink, put a few layers of luxury boxes, wider concourse, more bathrooms.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I would go to way less games as I have no interest in watching a CFL game in the middle of summer indoors. A 2 or 5pm kickoff on a Saturday in the middle of July sitting in the sun drinking beer and watching football is a good time. Sitting in a closed roof stadium loses a ton of the experience for me personally.

The solution to this is for the CFL to get their season going earlier. Even one month would have a huge impact on attendance.