[News] Bouma, Byron, and Jooris and 20 other players file for Salary Arbitration

[GioforPM]

Prediction: People will vehemently diagree with arbitrator. Further prediction - such disagreement will be both on the "too high" and "too low" sides.

Conclusion if correct: Arbitrator did a good job.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Anduril

No, the Flames are in the business of an entertainment organization that aims to win the Stanley Cup. You don't get there by constantly trying to maximize assets because the profit you could potentially make off of unloading for a better return doesn't necessarily put your team in a position to win.

Treliving will have his hands full when it comes to Monahan/Gaudreau/Gio/Bennett but thtere's a lot of other considerations that can be looked at first before considering the unlikely scenario of moving Bouma over a couple hundred K. Bouma's play and energy is more valuable to this team now and in the near future than another 2nd or 3rd round prospect that needs to be grown for another 3-4 years.

I thought that it is exactly what the Blackhawks were doing( Stan Bowman Trade History).

Also, I agree with "Bouma's play and energy is more valuable to this team now and in the near future". Its the "than" I don't agree with, because you don't know what the return will be. In order to get good players you need to give good players back. In fact, I didn't suggest trading him for a prospect at all. The point was that it will simply give our GM one more option.

Personally, I don't think he will be going anywhere. Neither do I want him to leave anywhere, and I feel that way about many of the Flames players. Unfortunately, a team's roster is not a static thing, especially in the winning business.

[EldrickOnIce]

Regardless of what Bouma gets, my stats prof would have been very pleased with the normal distribution in this sample.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Anduril

No, the Flames are in the business of an entertainment organization that aims to win the Stanley Cup. You don't get there by constantly trying to maximize assets because the profit you could potentially make off of unloading for a better return doesn't necessarily put your team in a position to win.

Treliving will have his hands full when it comes to Monahan/Gaudreau/Gio/Bennett but thtere's a lot of other considerations that can be looked at first before considering the unlikely scenario of moving Bouma over a couple hundred K. Bouma's play and energy is more valuable to this team now and in the near future than another 2nd or 3rd round prospect that needs to be grown for another 3-4 years.

No.
They are in the business of maximizing revenue, like any other business.
Winning helps maximize revenue.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

No.
They are in the business of maximizing revenue, like any other business.
Winning helps maximize revenue.

Which is another way of looking at the goal of winning the cup. You win by having a good team, not by having more picks.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Ferland had a hot streak for about 10 AHL games... might have done better but got hurt. Last year 15 pts in 32 games.

Juniors Ferland was on a line with Mark Stone...

In 2009-10 Bouma lost the last 13 games of the season to a partially torn MCL and then played all 16 of the Giants playoff games putting up 17 pts.... third best on the team.

Hard for Bouma to put up points in the AHL as he spent so little time there.

He might be ricardodw..

but he's ri...
....ri..gh.

I am not finishing this sentence.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Which is another way of looking at the goal of winning the cup. You win by having a good team, not by having more picks.

I don't disagree, though draft picks lower the cost of talent and therefore maximize profits. The return on Monahan and Gaudreau has been massive. Will also be on Bennett, I assume. You can win with players on ELC's.
Chicago, as pointed out, is a model of recent success. 3 Cups and 2 conference finals in 7 years. Probably because of trading (instead of overpaying) non 'core' players - Saad being the latest example.

[Stay Golden]

I'm disappointed this went to arbitration over 1m difference. To tell the truth i hope the decision goes mord towards 2.5 and not closer to 1.5m.
The Flames gave Bouma only a 1 year last offseason and Bouma gave them everything and the Flames reward him by low balling him. He exceeds expectations and doesn't get what should be any easy number to agree on.
If they offered 2.25 this would have been done.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I don't disagree, though draft picks lower the cost of talent and therefore maximize profits. The return on Monahan and Gaudreau has been massive. Will also be on Bennett, I assume. You can win with players on ELC's.
Chicago, as pointed out, is a model of recent success. 3 Cups and 2 conference finals in 7 years. Probably because of trading (instead of overpaying) non 'core' players - Saad being the latest example.

I agree with what you are saying in general. Yet is Lance not a core player? I think he is. The offense he brought to the team was very very welcome this past season, although unexpected. Heart and soul guy playing gritty hockey, dropping down and blocking shots no sane person does. Leads by example.

Being roommates with Monahan, a guiding hand, for a young man who signs a million dollar contract and one of his first purchase is a toaster that he loves! I will never forget that video!

So as for trading away versus overpaying for non core players? Debatable whether Bouma is a core player for sure, but if he has another season like last season or better I cant see how you do not call him a core player.

Were not talking about Bickell here at 5 million bucks a season. Were talking about a salary range of 1.5 to 2.5 million. In that range if Bouma regresses its still a good deal. If he remains the same or gets better its an absolute steal! I see no overpayment here!

Been dying to post this for awhile. Click the link!

http://redmileblog.com/2010/10/mark-giordano-contract/

Here is us overpaying for another guy. Was a decent signing with really no risk at the time.

Sorry if you read sarcasm in my post, not intended that way.

Bouma has earned a payday. Yet his payday is so laughable small. His numbers in a UFA market could net him 4 million plus. That would be a bad contract.

Also is Bouma "Boring Monahan", its worth the extra 500k if he is!

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I don't disagree, though draft picks lower the cost of talent and therefore maximize profits. The return on Monahan and Gaudreau has been massive. Will also be on Bennett, I assume. You can win with players on ELC's.
Chicago, as pointed out, is a model of recent success. 3 Cups and 2 conference finals in 7 years. Probably because of trading (instead of overpaying) non 'core' players - Saad being the latest example.

Absolutely though given what Bouma brings to the table relative to the potential difference in cost, I don't see it as a significant anchor to maintaining the core we've begun to identify.

Looking at the 2017-18 season when Bennett is due for a 'bridge' deal, I'm willing to estimate that between Monahan, Gaudreau and Bennet there will be an average of 6M or 18ish M for the three of them. Add Hamilton, Brodie and Gio (8M) and you're at about 37M. Only other major contact left with us is Frolik and one more year of Stajan. Extra 8M. We've spent 45M for 3x top 6, 1x top 9, 1x bottom 6 and 3x top 4 D.
Leaves us with roughly 30+M to find another 7 forwards, 4 defensemen and 2 goalies.

It's more likely we end up moving one of the main 6 guys I mentioned initially. Back on topic, with a guy like Bouma who can contribute in the bottom 9, that's money that can be justified as being versatile on top of all the other intangibles. None core players that eventually get moved out will be the likes of Backlund (I hope not), Hudler etc.

That being said I don't think Bouma should be getting anymore than 2M.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

No.
They are in the business of maximizing revenue, like any other business...

I can sell $1 for $0.90. My revenue maximization potential will be unlimited...

[Frequitude]

My favorite part of this thread is the almost perfectly normal distribution of the poll results.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I can sell $1 for $0.90. My revenue maximization potential will be unlimited...

Profit?

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

My favorite part of this thread is the almost perfectly normal distribution of the poll results.

Lol, I didn't vote but just hit show results. That is a beauty of a bell curve. A statistician's wet dream.

[Erick Estrada]

I don't really care about any of this as Lance Bouma to me is a complementary player and if the Hawks have shown anything over the years it's that they never get attached to these guys as their prime concern it holding on to their core players as long as you have them you can rotate your bottom six in and out as necessary. Bouma is a nice player to have but not a necessity as this team is going to sink or swim on the backs of Monahan, Gadreau, Bennet, Hudler, Hamilton and you can't overpay for shot blockers.

What I do care though is that the arbitrator makes the decision as soon as possible so I don't have to hear the 960 guys spend hours on Lance Bouma daily as it's getting really hard to listen to.

[Bingo]

I love Lance Bouma. The guy is a warrior and an important cog in the team that we saw on the ice last year.

But you have to hold the line on support players or they get priced off of good teams. I want Bouma to do well, but if the Flames just gave him 2.25 and called it a day, we'd be seeing the last of Bouma in a year or two as he'd have to ply his trade on a weaker team that can afford to pay more for a middle six forward that scored 8-11 goals a season.

Holding the line now keeps him here for 5 years where he belongs.

If he's 2.5 in 2 years the Flames will have to promote a younger option, ... contending teams have young players filling in the bottom 4-5 forward roles.

[shotinthebacklund]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I love Lance Bouma. The guy is a warrior and an important cog in the team that we saw on the ice last year.

But you have to hold the line on support players or they get priced off of good teams. I want Bouma to do well, but if the Flames just gave him 2.25 and called it a day, we'd be seeing the last of Bouma in a year or two as he'd have to ply his trade on a weaker team that can afford to pay more for a middle six forward that scored 8-11 goals a season.

Holding the line now keeps him here for 5 years where he belongs.

If he's 2.5 in 2 years the Flames will have to promote a younger option, ... contending teams have young players filling in the bottom 4-5 forward roles.

pretty much this exactly. The one snag to this is @ 16 Goals playing top pk minutes, is that still a bottom 4-5 forward? Next years offensive production is going to be a huge career turning point for Bouma, Whether good or bad.

I keep thinking about stempniak @ the 2.5 mill he made with the flames and how much Bouma is superior to him. Stempniak had 14g ,9g, 8g for the flames.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I love Lance Bouma. The guy is a warrior and an important cog in the team that we saw on the ice last year.

But you have to hold the line on support players or they get priced off of good teams. I want Bouma to do well, but if the Flames just gave him 2.25 and called it a day, we'd be seeing the last of Bouma in a year or two as he'd have to ply his trade on a weaker team that can afford to pay more for a middle six forward that scored 8-11 goals a season.

Holding the line now keeps him here for 5 years where he belongs.

If he's 2.5 in 2 years the Flames will have to promote a younger option, ... contending teams have young players filling in the bottom 4-5 forward roles.

I see your point. It is also worth mentioning that the Flames seem to have a knack for finding those bottom 6 grit and heart players.

But I do think that Bouma has slightly more upside than a typical support player though. I guess the question is, do we need him to be more than that...? If not, it might be better to flip him and let him flourish (and get paid) somewhere else while letting another support player step in.

[puckedoff]

He's a great player but with the players we have coming up on contract renewals, we don't have the luxury of paying guys what they ask or what they deserve.

Hopefully the arbitration doesn't sour the relationship between Bouma and the team, but that is a risk we are forced to take if we want to keep Monahan, Gaudreau, Gio, Hamilton, Bennett... etc. ... etc...

[Erick Estrada]

I look at a guy like Brandon Prust who had a fantastic run with the Rangers as he was their heart and soul guy for a few years but they let him walk and haven't skipped a beat. You have to put a price on these types of players and hold yourself to it. What I like about Treliving as he doesn't seem emotionally attached to any player and is running things strictly on a business level. Sure it would have been nice for Bouma if the Flames tossed a little bit more cash his way but it's becoming increasingly important to milk as much value as possible from your RFAs seeing how top player salaries continue to go up.